Cheating a Decotion

[BigEd]

Assuming all modern malts can be converted efficiently with a single infusion mash and that the decoction geeks continue to insist that decoction mashing produces a smooth, rounded melanoidin flavour that can only be reproduced by a decoction mash what is stopping someone from getting that 'unique' flavour by taking a portion of the mash at 60 mins and giving it a 20-30 min boil and returning tun to not only effect the mash out but to get an extra malty flavour ?

Nothing stopping you at all. In fact I do that all the time. I do use a single or double decoction with my lagers and Continental malts but when brewing ales with pale malt I will use a decoction to bring the mash to mashout temp.

[Frothy]

Aah mashout. Those Maillard reactions are between amino acids and sugars right? Doesn't the mash acidify during the course? certainly the sugars are more prevelant at the end. Sounds like a cunning plan Daab

Frothy

[BigEd]

Definitely worth the extra effort though? How subtle is the difference between a beer that has and hasn't been made this way?

My best answer to your first question is to give it a try and make up your own mind. As to the differences many could probably be called subjective but I do feel I taste the difference in my beers. I'm not pro-decoction in the way the same way the naysayers on the American forums are anti-decoction. I like the method and have used it for years but it really is your choice.

[Aleman]

In effect you are doing the third stage of the decoction mash to raise the temp for mashout.

It does work to an extent, the extent being the amount of melanoidins that are formed.

FWIW Greg Noonan no longer advocates Triple Decoctions and most of hte beers coming out of his brewery are now only single decocted (at most)

Another technique I've heard about with cereal mashes, is to pressure cook the 'decoction' which again does the same thing, encourages the formation of the melanoidins. I don't have a big enough pressure cooker to try this. I'm looking at getting a 23quart one from the US but the shipping is extortionate ($73 for the canner $157 for the shipping). I am sure that if they were willing to send it USPS surface it would be cheaper, or there must be a Parcels2Go / OneStopDrop type of service over there that could be used (Any colonials willing to help a Brit out by trans shipping???)

[steve_flack]

I am sure that if they were willing to send it USPS surface

Last time I looked USPS didn't do surface anymore - is not an option on their shipping rate calculator anyway.

[Barley Water]

Daab, I say go for it. I think that you will notice a difference, mainly in a sort of creamy mouthfeel. If you really want to notice a big difference, try making something with a lot of Munich malt in it. I think you will be surprised at how great the aromas are that are produced. I think it is always fun to see how changing up your procedures effects the final product, it adds some creativity to the whole process.

A previous poster mentioned using a pressure cooker to do the decoction. I had read something about that elsewhere and wondered if anyone had any experience doing it. If it really works, I would think it would make the whole decoction thing much easier (that way you can avoid the constant stirring).

[oblivious]

Sounds like a plan