No Flaked Maize

[tubby_shaw]

You could use polenta (corn meal)

You don't get full extract from corn meal by adding it to the mash, as the temperature isn't high enough to burst the starch particles. The best way to deal with it is to use a cereal mash 1/4 Grain 3/4 polenta, mash at 65C for 15 minutes then raise to a boil for 30 minutes, then add to the main mash.

What's the benefit of the short mash UD?
If the object is to degrade the cellular structure of the corn to allow the enzymes in the malt to convert the starch wouldn't a quick boil of the corn before adding to the mash suffice ?
If the enzymes cannot convert during the main mash then surely the short mash couldn't do it either
I am puzzled

[UserDeleted]

What's the benefit of the short mash UD?
If the object is to degrade the cellular structure of the corn to allow the enzymes in the malt to convert the starch wouldn't a quick boil of the corn before adding to the mash suffice ?
If the enzymes cannot convert during the main mash then surely the short mash couldn't do it either
I am puzzled

The starch chains are wound up into tight balls within the 'grain', and when the starch comes into contact with water it swells until it reaches the point where it bursts, and its at this point that the starch chains are available for conversion by the enzymes. Due to the slightly different bondings between grain (it's got to be something like that), different grains types 'burst' at different temperatures Barley is convienient as the gelatinisation temp is around 60C, the gelatinisation temp of rice and corn is higher (around 70-72) and so will not gelatinise properly in the mash. Hence the reason for the cereal mash.

The short mash prior to boiling liquifies the mash, its interesting you dough it in and its a horrible sticky mess, after the short mash it is very liquid, and subsequently boilable.

[tubby_shaw]

The short mash prior to boiling liquifies the mash, its interesting you dough it in and its a horrible sticky mess, after the short mash it is very liquid, and subsequently boilable.

So would the same effect be achieved by adding the maize to water at a low temp and then slowly raising the temperature to boiling ?
It just seems to me that the barley malt could be better employed in the main mash, as it cannot attack the starch in the corn until it has been liquified and at that temperature I thought that the enzymes would have been destroyed?
Would a good work around be to add any ground maize to the mash liquor at strike heat, which should do the liquifaction thing, then and then add the balance of the grist?

[UserDeleted]

For pre gelatinised adjuncts you do not need a cereal mash ie Flaked Maize/ Starch as the gelatinisation temp has already been reached during production.

As far as grain is concerned If you had 1Kg of polenta, then you would use around 300g of pale malt for the cereal mash. As you can see the amount of malt removed from the main mash is minimal, as is the amount of enzymes removed. The malt is not in the cereal mash to convert all the starch that happens when the cereal mash is added back to the main mash, and should have around 60 minutes conversion (Timing the start of each mash is important ). The malt aids liquifaction of the adjunct so boiling is easier.

Geleatinisation does not take place instantly and that is the reason for the 30 minute boil of the cereal mash. Adding the polenta to water at strike heat will gelatinise some starch but not all.

Using Flaked adjunct I get extraction effiencies in the order of 85-88%, using a cereal mash its usually up at the 95% mark.

[Belto]

Most of all that has gone over my head I shall refer to that at a later date when I have a lot more experience.
Back to the simple things in life
In have finished my boil it now cooling, but I had 20ltrs from the MT SG1.080 @50C
After the boil I now have only 12.5Ltrs @1.075@20c That seems rather a lot of evaporation. The boil was controlled so that it was a rolling boil and not one that is just on or off.Is this anormal loss?
I would like a 5-6% beer what SG shall I dilute to.

[Northern Brewer]

Having determined the final gravity of the cooled wort in the fermenter use the equation: Original Gravity x Initial Volume divided by Desired Gravity to discover what volume the wort needs to be made up to achieve the desired gravity.

Drop the intial one and zero from the gravity reading first so 1075 becomes 75

Say you have 12.5 litres of 1075 and require 1050 for approx 5%

12.5 X 75 divided by 50 = 18.75 final volume so you need to add 6.25 litres of water

[Chiltern Brewer]

I had a bad experience with flaked maize early on in my AG HB career... the notes in my brew log are "Didn't like corny/sour taste from maize" - never used it since. Now, malted wheat - that's gotta be my favourite adjunct.

[Chiltern Brewer]

In the recipes i've tried using it,I've never managed to pick out the flavour of flaked maize, what recipe did you use?

From my notes:

Pale 3.8Kg
Crystal 450g
Flaked Maize 200g
OG was 1040
25g each of Challenger, Fuggles and Goldings

It was about 10 years ago, so obviously I wasn't as experienced then, it could have been something else? I know I used the other 300g (of the 500g pack) in an earlier brew but with higher amounts of crystal and chocolate which may have masked the flavour. I've always understood it to be nitrogen diluent so have never seen the point in a HB context, whereas I like the spicy flavour I get from wheat malt.

I had another bad experience with Cascade hops - I hated the grapefruit flavour. That said I've tasted a comercial beer brewed with Cascade that was OK, and another (American) example that had the grapefruit taste

I guess this is why we brew our own - to suit our tastes. Mine just might be a bit conservative

[Chiltern Brewer]

In the recipes i've tried using it,I've never managed to pick out the flavour of flaked maize, what recipe did you use?

Came to me while supping some "Old Hooky" on Friday night - some commercial beers where I believe I have tasted the use of flaked maize albeit subtly: Broughton Greenmantle, Hook Norton Old Hooky (they use some in all their beers). I would describe it as a slight acidic note (I'm no Oz Clarke ) , and I'm not making it up as I looked up Greenmantle in the RA Almanac after I tasted it.

[Chiltern Brewer]

Perhaps I've just got a super-taster tongue - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2880471.stm