Persistent infection nightmare

[Davidman]

Ok. Thanks for all the input. Here's my current plan of action:

I'm going to look at the cleanliness of my bottles first. I'm bottling a batch of red IPA this week. It isn't showing any signs of infection at the moment nearly three weeks into primary.

I am currently soaking my bottles for this batch in an oxy type cleaner. Will rinse properly tomorrow and bottle on Friday.

I'm not going to use the bottling tree and avinator. I'm plan to fill each bottle with starsan, and transfer in batches.

I think if the infection shows up again, I need to look further back in the chain. I'll also have to (reluctantly) replace all my plastic... Again.

I am also going to dismantle my boiler tap and deep clean and boil.

For my next batch I'm going to mix and weigh my grain in a different room to where I brew and ferment.

I am also going to boil the extended siphon section that I attach to my tap to transfer rather than starsan it.


I will report back for anyone who is interested and for anyone who has any similar issues in the future.


What a fecking ball ache.

[f00b4r]

You can always try making some small batch extract beers to ease the pain of troubleshooting.
It would also help by allowing you to remove things from the equation completely, e.g. The boiler and associated tap.

[Davidman]

Bit of an update. Wouldn't mind a few opinions of this. Bottled my red IPA yesterday. Been in primary three weeks, dry hopped for a week. Nothing noticeably off in it but the surface of the beer suggested there could be something wrong. No big ugly pelicle or furry bits, just a little bit of a film.



Anyone else think those floaters could be a sign of a mild infection in primary? First time I've noticed it to be honest, but I never really get too paranoid about the appearance of beer in the fermenter.

[Piscator]

Infected

How are you doing with your list of actions?

Cheers
Steve

[Davidman]

I've not got round to anything yet. Thought I might as well bottle this one despite the infection. All my kit is stricken anyway so what's one more less than perfect batch in the grand scheme of things. Just have to drink fast and give a lot away.

Not brewing for a few weeks so I'll sort the tap, boil the attachment rather than starsan it for transferring. Going to need a new bucket, bottling bucket, bottling wand, autosiphon, airlock and paddle.

Getting expensive this.

[Piscator]

Hope you can bottom it out - good luck.

[MarkO'B]

Do you need to buy that much?

After all if its in the primary you know it's post boil, but before anything else. That tells me it's hop filter, I know it's been boiled but may have something stuck and rotten. Boiler tap, siphon or some utensils your using to aerate.

If you are using good products properly to clean your fermenters, then they should be ok. If not a good bleaching and scrub should have them clean. That said, do you use scouters on the plastic? That may cause an issue.

[Davidman]

Update for anyone who is interested.



Put simply, I can not get rid of this contamination. Tried just about everything I can possibly think of, including all suggestions on here to no avail.



I have spent far too much money on replacing plastic. I have deep cleaned my boiler tap. Taken anything out of the equation that could be harbouring infection. Weigh and mix grains not only in a different room but on a different floor, as well mashing in there.



I have an American pale that I bottled about 5 weeks ago that has developed a slight pelicle in the bottle along with the tell-tale tang (fermented in a brand new fermenter). Have a black saison in the fermenter that has developed one heck of a pelicle.



I'm about ready to give up. It must be something airborne in my kitchen. I'm not half arsed with my sanitation, and if I was I could understand this.



I either quit brewing altogether or learn to live with it.

[orlando]

I'm going to take as read you have done everything you say you have. That level of cleanliness should cure all of the things you are cleaning of any lingering problem so if you are still having problems then logically it is something else and something you consistently do as ALL your beers are infected. Thinking about that I was wondering about whether you take samples for hydrometer tests? How you do it and if you put the samples back? I can't remember how you chill your beer but if a plate chiller is used this can be a source of the problem. Your story suggests to me that something on the cold side of the process is going wrong so concentrate there. You didn't say much about yeast after the original problem but this is one aspect of brewing that requires sterilisation and not just sanitising, how you go about this may provide more clues.

[Davidman]

Thinking about that I was wondering about whether you take samples for hydrometer tests? How you do it and if you put the samples back? I can't remember how you chill your beer but if a plate chiller is used this can be a source of the problem. Your story suggests to me that something on the cold side of the process is going wrong so concentrate there. You didn't say much about yeast after the original problem but this is one aspect of brewing that requires sterilisation and not just sanitising, how you go about this may provide more clues.

I take my samples with a turkey baster that is only ever used for brewing. I submerge and fill it with starsan, take the top off, spray all areas with starsan. I have even taken to boiling it for about 15 minutes.
I never pour samples back.

I chill with a copper coiled wort chiller that I submerge at least 20 minutes before the end of the boil.

[orlando]

Well your regime appears perfect. I can only think your yeast handling is an area to look at, what do you do?

[Goulders]

On the first page yo mention using a liquid yeast. Do you always use a liquid yeast? Have you used a dry yeast?

[Bern]

I found this a interesting post and looked up a few similar images and conclusions.

Could possibly be Brettanomyces a type of wild yeast, doing some reading and water ph could be playing a part in this, maybe try a brew using bottled water as an experiment to see if it reoccurs some other sites say it's residual from star san that floats to the top.

Don't give up I'm sure there is an explanation somewhere.

Bern

[orlando]

I found this a interesting post and looked up a few similar images and conclusions.

Could possibly be Brettanomyces a type of wild yeast, doing some reading and water ph could be playing a part in this, maybe try a brew using bottled water as an experiment to see if it reoccurs some other sites say it's residual from star san that floats to the top.

Don't give up I'm sure there is an explanation somewhere.

Bern

Have a look at [/url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lacto ... rw-quOk%3D] these images [/url], I think it looks like lacto bacillus, it is certainly the most common and loves to ride on the back of malting barley so every time you pour grain into your container before mashing in those clouds of dust are looking for a home in your beer. As for starsan residue, that is tasteless so unlikely that.

[JamesF]

If you don't ferment under an airlock perhaps it is worth trying that? I know that pretty much everyone says it isn't required and I don't do so myself, but it might eliminate any airborne problems during the fermentation.

Perhaps it's also worth putting one batch in a barrel to eliminate the bottling end of the process? Or doing a no-chill batch so the wort leaves the boiler hot and you can remove the cooling process from the list of suspects?

James