Don't have any CRS and brewing first thing tomorrow. So this time I'll have to do without. My ph from water reports reads
Mean
Hydrogen Ion (pH) 7.9
When to stop sparging - the pursuit of clearer beer.
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Dan
7.9 is a little on the high side for brewing lighter styles with untreated water, that is to say at pH7.9 virtually all of your carbonates will exist as HCO3 (Bi-carbonate)
more importantly does the water report give a figure for alkalinity or hardness as CaCO3?
You can lower your sparge water pH using a variety of acids
Lactic, phosphoric and sulphuric are available through LHBS
CRS is just a blend of acids mainly Phosphoric
more importantly does the water report give a figure for alkalinity or hardness as CaCO3?
You can lower your sparge water pH using a variety of acids
Lactic, phosphoric and sulphuric are available through LHBS
CRS is just a blend of acids mainly Phosphoric
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SiHoltye
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Dan
thanks for the correction daab. I feel like a bit of a fool.according to George Fix, you want your alkalinity below 25ppm as CaCO3
at a pH of 7.9 his table shows aproximately 97% of your carbonates exist as HCO3
you are aiming to bring your carbonate levels closer to 25ppm by turning them into non buffering, neutral Carbonic acid. his calculations recomend that with an alkalinity of 162ppm CaCO3 you should lower the pH of your water to 5.6 through the use of acids to end up with 25ppm
If you go down this route i would plan ahead for the next brewday. you will need:
a way of mesuring pH
a pippet or dropper for adding small quantities of acid
and the acid itself
when you add the first few drops of acid into the water, the buffering capacity of the carbonates will stop the pH from falling by much. but when they have been neutralised a very small quantity of acid will cause the pH to drop sharply. go slow and dilute the acid in water for finer adjustments.
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SiHoltye
Hello again,
I just went to the Brupaks website and using the water report for my supply I have will alter my chemistry as follows, CRS added to my liquor before I do anything with it (45L), and DLS added based on % liquor used to the Grains before doughing in and separately to the wort at beginning of boil:
add 13.5ml of CRS to bring down CaCO3 from 162.5 to 100-150 range
add 13.5g of DLS to raise Ca from 65 to 100-120 range
I'm making a Porter tomorrow.
For the Best Bitter I'll do next week I'll:
add 33.75ml CRS to bring down CaCO3 to <50
add 33.75g DLS to raise Ca to 180-220
I just used the tables they provide there, coincidence that the figures are the same for CRS&DLS
I'll still ph5.2, 20g my Mash, and campden as usual.
I just went to the Brupaks website and using the water report for my supply I have will alter my chemistry as follows, CRS added to my liquor before I do anything with it (45L), and DLS added based on % liquor used to the Grains before doughing in and separately to the wort at beginning of boil:
add 13.5ml of CRS to bring down CaCO3 from 162.5 to 100-150 range
add 13.5g of DLS to raise Ca from 65 to 100-120 range
I'm making a Porter tomorrow.
For the Best Bitter I'll do next week I'll:
add 33.75ml CRS to bring down CaCO3 to <50
add 33.75g DLS to raise Ca to 180-220
I just used the tables they provide there, coincidence that the figures are the same for CRS&DLS
I'll still ph5.2, 20g my Mash, and campden as usual.
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SiHoltye
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SiHoltye
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SiHoltye
Found this from Mid-West Brewing
It's not the brupaks stuff
Product Description:
Burton Water Salts: A mixture of potassium chloride, Epsom salts, and gypsum. Use 1 packet (9g) per 5 gallon batch to emulate Burton-on-Trent water for British ales.
Bother, I'll leave it out this time. My Ca is 65 and it's suggested 100-120 for a Porter so not a million miles away. Oh well next time. It looks like it may be more use in my bitters as that is recommended by Brupaks at 180-220 Ca.
Thanks Daab, pH5.2 & CRS today.
It's not the brupaks stuff
Product Description:
Burton Water Salts: A mixture of potassium chloride, Epsom salts, and gypsum. Use 1 packet (9g) per 5 gallon batch to emulate Burton-on-Trent water for British ales.
Bother, I'll leave it out this time. My Ca is 65 and it's suggested 100-120 for a Porter so not a million miles away. Oh well next time. It looks like it may be more use in my bitters as that is recommended by Brupaks at 180-220 Ca.
Thanks Daab, pH5.2 & CRS today.
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Dan
If its porter your making you could omit the CRS your almost in the range anyway but i would up your calcium levels to at least 50ppm if your water source is low in them.
I dont know enough about pH5.2 to give you full cause and effect but Ive been having a think and heres my theory:
MASH
If the pH stablizer locks the mash pH to 5.2 the bi-carbonate content will be changed from HCO3- to H2CO3 by mopping up the free H+ hydrogen ions. the pH buffer should react by supplying more H+ ions to keep the pH down at 5.2
so in using pH5.2 the carbonates in your mash liqor will already be reduced to levels below 25ppm all that is left to do is to bring the Calcium levels up via DLS or the equivalent.
The down side of using CRS treatment to hit a specific mash pH Is you have to take into account other factors. eg the acid contribution of darker grains. This takes a bit of trial and error and if your like me and brew lager one day and a stout the next you never get the much of a chance to fine tune it. the pH 5.2 is very reliable.
SPARGE
going back the topic of improving the sparge method in order to promote clarity. the carbonates in your sparge water will still need removing to a similar degree to help limit the amount of polyphenols xtracted from the grain and to keep the finished wort pH down at 5.0 - 5.2
Using pH stabiliser in the HLT is an option but its expensive and a bit over kill. A simple addition of CRS will do the same job and if you miss the ph by 0.5 of a division you wont even notice the difference.
My recomendation for concistancy is
1. pH 5.2 in the mash
2. DLS in the mash
3. CRS in the sparge water
4. DLS in the boil
edit: took so long to write that Its already been covered
DLS are really just a way of upping the calcium content. You can do the same with Calcium Chloride or Gypsum. as for Burton water crystals its mostly gypsum anyway.
I dont know enough about pH5.2 to give you full cause and effect but Ive been having a think and heres my theory:
MASH
If the pH stablizer locks the mash pH to 5.2 the bi-carbonate content will be changed from HCO3- to H2CO3 by mopping up the free H+ hydrogen ions. the pH buffer should react by supplying more H+ ions to keep the pH down at 5.2
so in using pH5.2 the carbonates in your mash liqor will already be reduced to levels below 25ppm all that is left to do is to bring the Calcium levels up via DLS or the equivalent.
The down side of using CRS treatment to hit a specific mash pH Is you have to take into account other factors. eg the acid contribution of darker grains. This takes a bit of trial and error and if your like me and brew lager one day and a stout the next you never get the much of a chance to fine tune it. the pH 5.2 is very reliable.
SPARGE
going back the topic of improving the sparge method in order to promote clarity. the carbonates in your sparge water will still need removing to a similar degree to help limit the amount of polyphenols xtracted from the grain and to keep the finished wort pH down at 5.0 - 5.2
Using pH stabiliser in the HLT is an option but its expensive and a bit over kill. A simple addition of CRS will do the same job and if you miss the ph by 0.5 of a division you wont even notice the difference.
My recomendation for concistancy is
1. pH 5.2 in the mash
2. DLS in the mash
3. CRS in the sparge water
4. DLS in the boil
edit: took so long to write that Its already been covered
DLS are really just a way of upping the calcium content. You can do the same with Calcium Chloride or Gypsum. as for Burton water crystals its mostly gypsum anyway.
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steve_flack
Technical point, bicarbonate reacts with acid to give water and carbon dioxide.Dan wrote: the bi-carbonate content will be changed from HCO3- to H2CO3 by mopping up the free H+ hydrogen ions.
EDIT: Also you don't have to adjust 5.2 amounts if the amount of acidic grains varies. It's a buffer and therefore resists change to pH from both acids and alkalis.
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SiHoltye
Cheers Dan,
I'll get a Calcium addition for the next brew (I'm Ca=65 and I'll be brewing a bitter). The schedule you wrote though looks a good one.
I just doughed in 8kg grain and 21L water in the H&G cool box. Don't know if your familiar with it but there was less than 1cm to spare at the top. Didn't quite reach mash temp so tapped off about 5L, heated in a pan and put it back doing the trick 67°
. On the up side I don't think the temp will drop much over the mash!
I'll get a Calcium addition for the next brew (I'm Ca=65 and I'll be brewing a bitter). The schedule you wrote though looks a good one.
I just doughed in 8kg grain and 21L water in the H&G cool box. Don't know if your familiar with it but there was less than 1cm to spare at the top. Didn't quite reach mash temp so tapped off about 5L, heated in a pan and put it back doing the trick 67°
. On the up side I don't think the temp will drop much over the mash!-
Dan
we add calcium to
offer thermal protection to the enzymes during the mash (they dont denature as quick)
to aid the protien coagulation in the boil
Ca ions futher precipitate phosphates during the boil (and drop the ph by about 0.2)
and they also help the yeast to floculate and the beer to clear during fermentation
your Calcium levels at 65ppm should be fine 50-100 is a good area to aim for
mine is about 10ppm so im always using salts.
The water reports from famous brewing towns are not nessaccerily the optimum waters for the beer style. getting your Ca levels to 160 means you will have to increase your suphate or chloride levels too. for simplicity you could omit the DLS for this brew.
offer thermal protection to the enzymes during the mash (they dont denature as quick)
to aid the protien coagulation in the boil
Ca ions futher precipitate phosphates during the boil (and drop the ph by about 0.2)
and they also help the yeast to floculate and the beer to clear during fermentation
your Calcium levels at 65ppm should be fine 50-100 is a good area to aim for
mine is about 10ppm so im always using salts.
The water reports from famous brewing towns are not nessaccerily the optimum waters for the beer style. getting your Ca levels to 160 means you will have to increase your suphate or chloride levels too. for simplicity you could omit the DLS for this brew.