Do liquid yeasts really make that much difference?

[steve_flack]

My take is that yes, they make a big difference and are essential for some speciality ales.

However, using a liquid yeast doubles the cost of most of my brews, and does not make it twice as good, so i will only use one rarely!

I get at least three 38L brews out of one tube (often more) so the cost of the liquid yeast is less than 3p a pint.

[mysterio]

I'm not bothered about the cost, usually I'll get one 10 gal batch out of a tube, 50% of the time I repitch so i'll get 20 gallons out of a tube.

[leedsbrew]

my last tube of WLP051 has done 6 19-23L brews and I still have 4 splits left in the fridge!

[Dennis King]

I`ve always stuck to 6 23lt brews from each vial but might go up a few more.

[unclepumble]

The yeast you choose to brew with is the single most contributory factor to what beer you get out of the bucket at the end of fermentation.

The chosen yeast strain provides 80-90% of the flavour profile for the brew and also what temperature it is fermented at dictates the final product, you can mess around with different malts etc but the yeast is the decider to what beer you produce,

I can't agree with that at all - if you use a load of roasted malt your beer WILL taste of roasted malt no matter what yeast you throw at it. Hops too - if you use a load of cascade it will taste utterly different to something with a few goldings. Within a narrow range of malt bills and hops e.g. BYOBRAAH resipes then yeast will be a massive influence on the less definable 'character' but a guinness-type stout recipe is going to taste like a stout and packed full of roasted flavours no matter what yeast you use in it - even with assertive yeasts such as belgian trappist or the like they would add a belgian character to a beer that would be front-and-centre a stout. Likewise hops - try Achouffe's 'Trippel IPA' for a great belgian twist on an American style IPA with tons of amraillo front and centre but the achouffe yeast providing a definite belgian touch/character.

To asser "yeast strain provides 80-90% of the character of a beer" seems a fair assertion in that yeast provides both its own influence (which can be profound with assertive 'character' yeasts such as Belgian's or weissen yeasts) in balancing the malt and hops and adding its own signature - character is also less quantifiable than 'flavour'...

Stan Hieronymous's 'Brewing with Wheat' book has an excellent section on the effect of temp on the belgian and german weissen yeasts - fermentation temp is a BIG influence.

I do wonder if the reason why a lot of micro's brews are , to me, quite dull is the prevalence of Saf-04 / US-05 / Nottingham which bring either a single flavour in the case of saf-04 (the bready hint) or very little at all for US-05 and Nottingham? Beers brewed with classic yeasts which add flavour and balance e.g. Sam Smiths or Black Shep or Tim Taylors seem like much richer and deeper beers than those where it is JUST the malt/hops 'balance' with yeast adding so little... Just a thought/rumination.

I guarantee that 80-90% of the finished flavour profile is down to the yeast used, Yes you are right throw loads of roasted grain or masses of hops and the flavour of these will be very dominant, but if you split the wort and use 2 different strains of yeast, the 2 finished beers will taste totally different, and that will be down to the yeast.

There are many factors to finished taste, Yeast, Grain, water profile, hops, temperature pitched at, temperature fermented at. How much dissolved oxygen is in the wort, (if you only gravity aerate or beat with a spoon you will get no more than 5ppm dissolved oxygen, The ideal amount is 8-9ppm to fully atenuate the yeast) even the vessel you ferment in has an effect, a 50l brew will taste differet to the same wort in a 25l brew.

SO4 S05 Notty etc are all relatively neutral strains so if you have only fermented with those you will not be aware of the big difference a liquid specialist strain can make to the finished product.

You will find if you use the same strain for every beer you do your beers will all have a similar flavour/body profile, if you analyse them correctly. It is good to try different strains with the same recipe you may be quite supprised at the results.

UP

[Blackjack]

NO

just beg borrow or steal some proper brewery yeast. Crikey everyone these days has a microbrewery within 10 or 12 miles.
It used to be tradition that any commercial brewer would GIVE ( free gratis and for nothing ) enough yeast to another brewer for a brew and to get started again after a disaster without any cost, charge or money changing hands.

Even today, I know of one big brewer ( no names, but 5 Kg of yeast collected yesterday ) who doesn't really like to charge or will accept a very small gift, and next week I am visiting a new biggish microbrewery that has just opened and I am sure that a Xmas bottle of scottish wine will secure a years supply of yeast.

[mysterio]

You will find if you use the same strain for every beer you do your beers will all have a similar flavour/body profile, if you analyse them correctly. It is good to try different strains with the same recipe you may be quite supprised at the results.

Totally agree

[steve_flack]

NO

just beg borrow or steal some proper brewery yeast. Crikey everyone these days has a microbrewery within 10 or 12 miles.

Yeah....and round here they're all using bloody Nottingham and all their beers taste the same. The only odd one out is Elgoods and they don't give away their yeast.

[unclepumble]

Phone Thwaites they will sell you yeast slurry & post it I think If you want an email address I can give it you. via pm.

Failing that Brewlabs do a variety of liquid yeasts at £3.50 a pop delivered.

UP

[monkeyboy]

so i'm now the proud owner of two jam jars full of fresh yeast (i forgot to ask what strain it was), courtesy of the lovely people at Stewart's Brewing, in Edinburgh. I also have a vial of WLP002 which i'll save for some future brew. Brewing on monday - will probably use both jars. Let the experiment begin!

[leedsbrew]

You could use THIS pitching rate calculator!

[monkeyboy]

Thanks for that. Most interesting. Even on it's worst-case calculation, i need less than one jar full. When i was at the brewery collecting it, we worked out that based on their normal pitching rate i'd need about a jar full.
Not sure what i'll do with the leftovers other than let it slowly take over the fridge It's probably not going to be plain sailing getting it out of the jars though, and i want to 'touch' it as little as possible, even with sterile equipment so i'll probably end up using both jars and leaving some behind in each one. Photos will be posted when i'm done

[bosium]

Oh just buy the damn liquid yeast - yes it does make a *considerable* difference in most beers.

[Tom_D]

I've just had a sample of my newest brew which is just about ready for bottling. I used WLP002 (my first attempt with a liquid yeast) and it's made me wonder why I hadn't done it sooner, Wow! The difference is huge.

[Blackjack]

NO

just beg borrow or steal some proper brewery yeast. Crikey everyone these days has a microbrewery within 10 or 12 miles.

Yeah....and round here they're all using bloody Nottingham and all their beers taste the same. The only odd one out is Elgoods and they don't give away their yeast.

A very very fair point. It is a pity that mor eof them do not show some initiative and go to thwaites, where mine comes from, since unclepumble spills the beans. It is probably a good thing that there is a vibrant microbrewery business climate. So that the week die and new ones will fill the gaps. A bit like yeast cultures I suppose