Haze

[Dan]

when you say crash cool, how cool over how longer period do you use?
The beers im having trouble with are mostly fermented at 20C secondary at 20C and then thrown into the freezer in a corny at around 3C
the lagers are 11C then 10C then 3C
as for the cooling i have chilled as far as 9C with ice in the kettle. but it hasnt had a noticable effect.

Vossy, In the brewshop on the A6 peter had a malt analysis print out. at the time i didnt ask if it was typical or lot. but it might be worth checking the protein levels.

Has a protein rest already been tried with the haze guys? ive not done it my self,also as far as adjuct protein dilution is concerned ive added up to 20% rice or corn with seemingly no effect.

[delboy]

Crash cooling will knock the yeast out of solution in a few days, crash cooling for haze takes quite a bit longer, i've never actually noted how long before it goes crystal but its probably closer to three weeks i would imagine (you just have to let gravity do its thing).

The lower you can get the temperature the quicker the haze seems to fall out of suspension.

Thats interesting about chilling to 9C and seeing no real reduction, i think the commercials go quite a bit lower than that (close to zero) so that avenue is probably out for practical reasons.

[iowalad]

In another forum somebody suggested using gelatin after the beer has been cooled to 1C/34F.

Never tried it myself.

[Gurgeh]

i kept a corny as cold as i could for a couple of weeks to clear a haze - it worked but unfortunately i only got 3 star bright pints out of it as i had been drinking it for a month

what i did notice was that the sediment at the bottom of the corny was much darker than usual - a sort of 'rust' brown instead of the usual 'peanut butter' tan.

given that it was a pale ale using only MO i initially thought this sediment must be rust, but everything is shiny.

is this a settled protein haze?

i did notice that the massive cascade aroma that the beer had when it was a week or two had dropped away significantly, whilst the overall quality of the beer had improved.

[Vossy1]

what i did notice was that the sediment at the bottom of the corny was much darker than usual - a sort of 'rust' brown instead of the usual 'peanut butter' tan.

Yep, I get that too and sometimes it won't even shift with a powerful hosing.

i did notice that the massive cascade aroma that the beer had when it was a week or two had dropped away significantly, whilst the overall quality of the beer had improved.

Ditto again.

[Gurgeh]

so do you suppose that the protein molecules bind to the aroma molecules, so that as one drops away so does the other?

if so, then i'll keep the haze and be proud of it!

uh oh - i said molecules.. here comes Steve Flack

[oblivious]

Protein by the nature are sticky and I am never surprised to what albumin will bind to, the is problem so loos but I suspect that the concentration in excess compared to the amount lossed

Here is something for the geeks

Expression levels of the yeast alcohol acetyltransferase genes ATF1, Lg-ATF1, and ATF2 control the formation of a broad range of volatile esters

[Vossy1]

What on earth are you putting in your beer ?

It soon shifts with hot water and oxymax, definately not rust

[steve_flack]

Just because I fancy gloating...here are some of my beers.

First of my Belgian Saison



My Duvel clone



My Cherry Beer



Even my Weizen is dropping bright...

[Wez]

I thought you said they were clear or is that condensation?

[AT]

Condensation yea i seem to get a LOT of that in my beers

[Vossy1]

Lovely beers SF
I especially like the look of the cherry

[Dan]

Ive just racked the latest lager to a couple of corny kegs. Its bright with a light haze of fine particles (the sort that drop out over time) not protein haze.

I have now made 3 lagers so far with little to no haze problems using fawcetts lager malt. all were fermented at 11C secondary at 5C and conditioned at 3C.

shall we say 'Hypothectically' that fawcets pale malt was the problem in my brewing set up.

how do brewerys deal with a difficult high protein/nitrogen malt?

I dont have the means for decoction
Ive tried up to 20% adjuncts

any tips?

[steve_flack]

Perhaps Vos and Wez need to brew some Belgium beers

It just so happens that I have a lot of Belgian beers on just now....I'm doing a bitter next weekend...and after prolly a mild. I've got some Wyeast 1275 to try out.

[Wez]

I think that the key to my Haze issue might be patience...

I've just poured a half of 'Not Tonight Dear' and i'd say it's in the clear (but not polished) camp, this was kegged on 24th July.



Tastes great by the way!