TTL caramel-biscuit note

[CestrIan]

My TTL dropped from 1042 to 1017 in two days @ 20C. It was a vigorous fermentation, so I reduced the temp from 20C to 17C at 1017 and it dropped to 1014 after another 24 hours. I am a bit worried about chilling it right down now because it has a green apple taste to it (acetaldehyde), which means young beer to me. If I chill it down and drop the yeast out, I know that this won't go away.

[Dr. Dextrin]

My TTL dropped from 1042 to 1017 in two days @ 20C. It was a vigorous fermentation, so I reduced the temp from 20C to 17C at 1017 and it dropped to 1014 after another 24 hours. I am a bit worried about chilling it right down now because it has a green apple taste to it (acetaldehyde), which means young beer to me. If I chill it down and drop the yeast out, I know that this won't go away.

Ah, that must be the taste I had too, in my 6X clone. It just tasted a bit stale to me, like beer that's been left in a glass too long, but that'd be acetaldehyde I guess. I noticed that the Fullers yeast seemed to produce a lot of that taste (in the starter, for instance) but it seemed to fade over a week or so and the beer ended up tasting fine.

It would be good to know how to get the diacetyl without the acetaldehyde, though.

[DerbyshireNick]

Funny enough I have a TTL from WHS on day 9 of fermentation now.

I decided to do it with Nottingham as I have never used it before. Reading that Nottingham is happy at 14-21 and given that I had a major healthy 1L starter I decided to do it at 15c bringing it up slowly to 18 after the first 3/4 days.

After the first 4/5 days it was heavy buttery biscuit combined with green (I would say sharp rather than sour) apples.
As the days went by the apples have faded though not completely and the buttery biscuit is becoming more palatable while fading too. Its bottomed out at 1.011/12 which will do me. Going to leave it at 18c until day 12 or so to clean up as much as possible then will chill it for 5 days (just because it fits in with my time not because it needs that long) before Kegging.

After its chill week once the bulk of the yeast and the matter is dropped out I can normally get a feel for how it's going to end up so ill report back if the biscuit is still there in a week or so.

[Dave S]

Well, so far so good. My TTL has been fermenting for just over a week. FG is looking like it's going to 1011 - spot on, and it's tasting a lot closer to the original, so I'm very hopeful

[DerbyshireNick]

Had a AG TTL with Nottingham in the barrel for 2 weeks or so.

It initially had what I call a "burnt" taste. what I imagine burnt firewood would taste like. Todays sampling found that has almost completely dissipated now and it's pretty darn close to TTL. Going to be a good brew I think!

[Dave S]

Had a AG TTL with Nottingham in the barrel for 2 weeks or so.

It initially had what I call a "burnt" taste. what I imagine burnt firewood would taste like. Todays sampling found that has almost completely dissipated now and it's pretty darn close to TTL. Going to be a good brew I think!

I used Nottingham last time and found that the caramel and biscuit thing just wasn't there, (hence this topic) but this time I've used WYEAST 1469 and find the taste is much closer, although it's only 9 days old at the mo. So a bit to go yet.

[CestrIan]

The Wyeast 1469 is the key IMO. Without it this is just not anywhere near TTL!

[greenxpaddy]

A last caveat: don't add your hops at the beginning of the 90 minute boil unless you want to greatly increase the bitterness. Make sure to do your hop additions at 60 minutes remaining, 15 minutes remaining, and so on, as your recipe dictates.

I would doubt anyone could tell the difference in the bitterness between a 60 min and 90 min addition. 95% of the bitterness is drawn out within 60 mins.

[AdyG]

I used Nottingham yeast with my TTL, it's not far off on taste, but cheers for the advice on the WYEAST 1469. It's a brew I would do again and will use that next time.

Where does everyone get the recommendations for yeast to match beer types? I have to admit I just went with what the shop recommended and didn't think it would make that much difference!

I realise now it's quite important to final taste!

[hommebru]

great thread guys, i'll definitely have to look into the whole diacetyl issue with regard to homebrew as well in commercial beers.
i'm sure that other flavours which can be seen as undesirable can infact be a positive addition if managed properly.

[Dave S]

I used Nottingham yeast with my TTL, it's not far off on taste, but cheers for the advice on the WYEAST 1469. It's a brew I would do again and will use that next time.

Where does everyone get the recommendations for yeast to match beer types? I have to admit I just went with what the shop recommended and didn't think it would make that much difference!

I realise now it's quite important to final taste!

There's a good comparison chart here :http//www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm that tells you what yeasts arenfrom which breweries, though it only deals with WYEAST and White Labs liquid yeasts. It also gives equivalents from one to the other.

[DerbyshireNick]

Yeah please don't read my using Nottingham as advise it was just to give context.

I only used Nottingham as when I started AGing in Jan I got too caught up in using liquid yeast and 200-250g of hops in a 21L batch and so on. Since bringing things back to a well started dry yeast and simpler additions the beer has hit pretty much pub quality. So anyway that's a long way of saying Nottingham isn't really for TTL but it makes a good close beer if getting an exact clone isn't an issue to you.

[weiht]

I find notty gives a tart finish that seem to stay in the beer. I would have think that s04 would be closer than the notty, but nothing comes close to reproducing those stone fruity notes like the wy1469, it also has a dry finish but not thin.

[greenxpaddy]

I would be interested to hear from Critch about diacetyl levels when you cask at a couple of points from FG. In that scenario you are racking before the DR is complete. I would expect that the diacetyl levels would be raised. However it would depend on the fermentation temp profile and the yeast involved.

Its nice and easy and quicker turn around to do this rather than prime in the normal way. Just wondered if taste is markedly different.

[AdyG]

There's a good comparison chart here :http//www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm that tells you what yeasts arenfrom which breweries, though it only deals with WYEAST and White Labs liquid yeasts. It also gives equivalents from one to the other.

Cheers Dave S, that's great, exactly what I was after! I wanted to make sure I was roughly in the right area for choosing yeasts for future brews.