Kits to AG is it easy?

[Clibit]

You'll have to be quick though, because when I update the static pages (coming soon!) those pics will be history!

Shame! Archive for posterity!

[Eric]

I mashed in a grain bag for my first few years of grain brewing (about 1986) - though in those days it wasn't called BIAB.

I switched to mashing loose in my Ritchies boiler because I found the looser mash promoted a more even temperature. I transferred the mash to a separate vessel with a grain bag suspended in it to sparge as I didn't have a false bottom in those days (make your own double entendre from that!).

That was until quite recently and you can still see me using it on the grain pages of this site here. You'll have to be quick though, because when I update the static pages (coming soon!) those pics will be history!

I remember seeing your false bottom Jim. I think it was after then that I made this one.


Last time I was in a pound shop they still had those trays in stock. I bought a few spares one time but they were too handy for other purposes. Do you use the same one now? Who's was that original idea as I think it was on here.

Pat Holindale will readily admit it himself (later in the podcast) that it is not a new method. They have just progressed the method with comparison tests and science as there was always a section of established 'traditional' brewers like yourself who had a lot of questions and some with reasons as to why it wouldn't work.
These have all been subsequently discounted.
Dave Line may have mentioned it in his book and people may have used it but I don't think there was anything remotely close to the distributed effort we have seen in the last 10 years to get to the point where we are today.

I hope to hear your thoughts if you get to the end as I think some of your points will be covered.
There are interesting points later on regarding efficiency and also correcting some bad practices that have sprung up around BIAB such as over crushing malt.

The point of this thread though is not about what method is better but the OPs question is 'Is it easy to move to AG?'
With BIAB being an AG method, far simpler, with less initial outlay and pretty much indistinguishable results in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, it would be difficult not to recommend it
The resources available for BIAB (or full volume mashing as it should have been called) are great today and certainly have helped many people make the jump to AG where they might not have been able to in the past.

You should also consider Eric that you and the OP are coming from totally different experience points.

I've listened to the full podcast and on the up side they were highly enthusiastic. It would take too much space to correct all misinformation, much of it dispensed under the pretence of dispelling myth, but I'll touch on trub. Trub is a mix of insoluble and coagulated components, but they spoke of it as though it was one and all the same. They agreed that BIAB produced more trub but justified it as it dropped out anyway (which it will in its own time, not yours) and being good for the yeast which is not so with the type of extra trub from inadequate interstage filtering.
It did explain why many enthusiastic BIAB brewers who are obviously capable of a greater understanding of brewing, don't bother. Is that what the OP wants?

[AnthonyUK]

Many thanks Eric for taking the time to listen to the podcast and provide some feedback.
The only thing I'll add is that the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Anthony

[Jim]

.........I remember seeing your false bottom Jim. I think it was after then that I made this one.


Last time I was in a pound shop they still had those trays in stock. I bought a few spares one time but they were too handy for other purposes. Do you use the same one now? Who's was that original idea as I think it was on here.............

Yeah still using it.

The idea for that particular style of false bottom (i.e. with the pipework exiting out of the top) came from Daab/Chris. He may have seen it elsewhere, but I think it's more likely that it was his own idea.

[Twistedfinger]

Only returned to brewing recently after many years drinking commercial beers, to find that things have really moved on for the better. Completed a few kits since with mixed results but in whole pleasantly surprised.
Thinking ahead, what have been fellow brewers experiences moving from kits to AG.Was it easy, expensive, and were the results good enough to make that transition? Can you make 40pt brews successfully, using a lot of your kit equipment?
I am carrying on with the kits at the moment, but looking to make the step up later in the year, so looking for any advice l can get.

Orval,

All of your extract kit will be usable. When you go AG all you are doing is the "extracting stage" yourself so you don't have to use manufactured malt extract supplied by a third party.

Thinking ahead, what have been fellow brewers experiences moving from kits to AG.

I brewed kits back in the late 80's mainly 2 can all malt kits as they gave better results. I had a HBS on my door step and gave serious thought to getting a 3v system and going AG. I still have a copy of CJJ Berry's book Eric mentions and I can still recall the section where he mash's in a cloth bag and sparges over his boiler with successive kettles of hot water. However due to moving and work I consigned the kit to the loft and that was that for nearly 20 years.
4 years ago I decided to give the kits another go and did a few beers but I wanted more and started to look into AG.

I obviously knew about 3V as I'd looked into it years before so with the wonders of the internet I started to research what I'd need. I then stumbled upon Brew in a bag ( or full volume mashing) and the thing that caught my eye was all I needed was a big pot, a heat source and some voile. The pot and the heat I'd need for 3V so any investment wouldn't be wasted and the voile is cheap as chips. The rest is history . I make beers that my friends and I are very happy with so I don't think think I'll be venturing into 3V as BIAB suits my needs perfectly.

Have fun which ever way you go Orval , do your research and ask the guys here if you have questions.

TF

[Eric]

.........I remember seeing your false bottom Jim. I think it was after then that I made this one.


Last time I was in a pound shop they still had those trays in stock. I bought a few spares one time but they were too handy for other purposes. Do you use the same one now? Who's was that original idea as I think it was on here.............

Yeah still using it.

The idea for that particular style of false bottom (i.e. with the pipework exiting out of the top) came from Daab/Chris. He may have seen it elsewhere, but I think it's more likely that it was his own idea.

Ah, yes, I remember, messing about with that idea using a variety of plastic dinner plates. They would all eventually crack between perforations, but it was fun and the beer got made in a kind of fashion. That just demonstates how the sudden improvement in availability and cost of stainless steel has radically changed things including brewing techniques and equipment in such a short period.
What's Chris doing these days, do you know?

[MarkA]

Orval62 - I have just jumped from brewing kits to AG and I wouldn't say it's easy but, if you read up and prepare yourself properly, get your head around what needs doing and why, and have the right volumes and temperatures written down close at hand, you'll be in a better position come the glorious day. Mine's HERE

As for gear, it depends what you'll need and how much you have got, or want, to spend. You'll obviously have a fermentation vessel/syphon tube/pressure barrel or bottling set-up already. On top of this, I went for a Buffalo 40 litre electric boiler and a cool box mash tun, which cost about £120. I also paid another £35 for an immersion wort chiller. All of the above can be done for a bit cheaper if you make it yourself but;

a) I didn't like the idea of cracking a £25 cool box whilst drilling a hole in it for the tap, so having this step already done was a bonus. Plus, mine came with a wort filter already fitted

b) I wanted an electric boiler and the Buffalo is highly recommended by other homebrewers (though I am also aware people have had problems with them not holding a rolling boil and cutting out)

c) I couldn't find anyone local to me selling copper coil so would have had to send away for it which, with added postage, came to about £28. £35 seemed a better deal for not having to do the work.

Other bits and bobs like thermometers/hydrometers etc you may or may not already have and all of the above equipment is hugely variable as I'm sure you're aware.

I had a sneaky taste of my brew today and, though it's only been priming in the barrel for 4 days, tastes much better than any kit beer I have made (and a lot of commercial beers I have tasted)

I know I have a lot to learn but that's half the fun of it Go for it!