all grain brewing problem

[coatesg]

Dihydrate of what salt?

[Fallen]

Calcium chloride

[coatesg]

So that's a load of calcium being added then - about 220ppm from my back of envelope calcs in 25L on top of the 70ppm or so that's already in the water you use. You're also adding a load of sulphates in the gypsum, epsom salts and CRS on top of the 75ppm or so in the water as is; and chlorides in the CaCl2 and CRS on top of the 33ppm or so there already is. (all figures for my supply)

That's pretty high mineral content I think - and way more than "a tsp of gypsum in the mash". I wouldn't be surprised if that may be causing issues here. If you want to have those mineral levels in the beer, then I would put less in the mash and more in the boil - I find a tsp or one and a half each in the mash and boil is enough for me.

[Fallen]

Yep, that's what I figured. You live and learn!

I'll be reverting to my very basic water treatment of CRS and a small amount of gypsum (8g by my records) in the HLT.

Cheers Graeme

[196osh]

Leave your beer on the yeast cake for a couple of weeks. No need to rush it. Leaving it on the cake will allow the yeast to clean up any byproducts of fermentation that are undesoreable.

Also bottle a some. See if you have the same issues.

[gnorwebthgimi]

All good so far guys. Still early days though.

[gnorwebthgimi]

The beer is still good, nice and malty so increased gravity has helped

But.....

the is still a tartness that is a lingering after taste, which I think is s04 (agreeing with Northern brewer).

Will be trying with t58 (as I planed) and may make the leap into liquid yeasts.

Thanks for your help everyone

[fisherman]

Why mash in a coolbox and empty into another container to syphon, Fit a copper manifold to the coolbox bottom and syphon out into the boiler. I hope you sort out your problem. We either have had them or still have them to a degree now and again.
cheers
fisherman

[Northern Brewer]

there is still a tartness that is a lingering after taste

Describes SO4 to a T

[gnorwebthgimi]

I'm pretty certain it's the yeast.

Having a higher gravity seems to help but the interesting thing is I drew a bottle sample off before the beer started finishing and it kept nicely!

So maybe I need to transfer the beer out of the barrel after carbonating?!
Perhaps it's the small amount of yeast slurry at the bottom of the barrel that's the problem.

I'm going to try a brew with T58 next and hope that's better, will also bottle a sample to compare and take a bottled sample from the barrel the same as above.

I'm still making progress, so I'm happy.

[critch]

mate i comercially brew with s-04 and have NEVER detected a sour tartness for my beer i use s-04 for the sweeter ales ffs!

id say water treatment (get a water profile and use grahams calculator!)

OR your little barrels seal around the tap check em for splitting when theyre tight,this is an often widely overlooked reason for fek up!

if theyve split theyre full of nastys that nowt apart from temperature sterilisation will sort out!

when i brewed small scale i used to replace my seals every year without fail, and do so now on my comercial brewery!

[gnorwebthgimi]

Hi Critch

It's definitely s04.

The sample I drew out of the barrel was fine and the beer in the barrel changed. The barrel is fine, no leak, no over carbonation, VERY heavily sanitised.

I have had these barrels break in the past (about 3 or 4!!!) so I've experienced this.

The beer is of a good standard, if I was served it in a pub, I would be perplexed as to why it was so gassy (but how else can I get it out of the barrel) but it's a long long way from being so bad I would send back, in fact it's GOOD, but not brilliant (like it was).

In fact I have tasted this taste in commercial pints I've had but it was much more subtle.

What would be really helpful to know is:
How long you leave the beer on the yeast cake, whether you transfer the beer to a secondary vessel before barrelling as maybe I can get more of the yeast to settle out and this issue won't occur.

I barrel very quickly (5/6 days after pitching) and straight off the yeast cake. Hence this is always about a tablespoon of slurry in the bottom of the barrel at the end.

I have a solution that should work and that is conditioning in the barrel then transferring into bottles.

[coatesg]

Barrelling 5/6 days after pitching is quite quick IMHO - even if it appears to be done inside 4 days, I will always always give it 7-8 days minimum. Usually 2 weeks. It really won't hurt to rack off the beer 2 weeks down the line, and you'll still be able to have enough yeast in there to allow bottle conditioning to work.

[gnorwebthgimi]

What you have said makes sense but I am slightly confused as to what to do.

Should I barrel after seven days as usual and then transfer to a new barrel after a few more days or just leave it all on the yeast cake for 7+ days?

To be honest I am tempted to do the former because in taking bottled samples this seems to have worked.

I guess if the issue is that the beer needs to be on the yeast cake then I should do the latter.

Regards

[coatesg]

Just leave it on the yeast cake - it can sit there happily for much longer than 7 days - 14 days is usually fine. It's impossible to say (without knowing what the problem is!) that leaving it to clear up properly by sitting on the yeast will fix it, but it rules out one issue. By moving stuff around a lot, it increases to risk of infection/oxidation.

And, to be honest, I'm still dropping yeast out in the fermenter 14 days down the line anyhow so there is still some yeast in suspension for secondary conditioning.

FWIW, I don't get the tart flavour people say they do from S04. I find it's fairly versatile and reliable as long as you aerate it well at the start. I prefer the flavours from other liquid yeasts, but that's a different issue.