all grain brewing problem

[soupdragon]

In fact I have tasted this taste in commercial pints I've had but it was much more subtle

Hi gnorwebthgimi

Would that brewery be Adnams by any chance? I'm trying to track down a flavour in my brews and I've tasted it in their beers. Can't really describe it tho, the beer is still drinkable but I'd be a lot happier if I could eliminate it. I can't blame the yeast on my " taste " as it's there with both so-4 and nottingham........

Cheers Tom

[gnorwebthgimi]

Hi Soupdragon

IIRC I've never tasted it in Adnams. I live in Suffolk and it's a very variable pint. The BEST pubs around serve it in brilliant condition, but I generally don't trust it everywhere I go (and I've heard it doesn't travel well). The last pint I tasted it in was Greene King IPA (on tap). It has a heavy fruity flavour from the yeast but it was scarcely masking the off flavour.

It's odd but if I pay £3.00 a pint I'm less picky that if I brew it myself.

I will let the next batch sit on the yeast cake a few more days and see what happens.

[soupdragon]

Hi

With my most recent brew ( still in the fermenter ) I used bottled water just to rule out my supply. I honestly don't think that it's an infection as the taste is exactly the same as when I used to brew over 20 years ago and the gear I'm using now is all brand new. Only did a couple of kits before switching to extract, that's when the flavour appeared and has been there since. The exeption was a mild kit I did recently to test out an old king keg that I was given. That turned out fine ( although I added some chocolate malt and a few hops to it ), no sign of the taste at all. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's something as simple as water treatment. I hope you get to the bottom of your problem sooner rather than later.

Cheers Tom

[Northern Brewer]

Trawling this forum, it is apparent that most people cannot detect the S04 tartness. I didn't notice it myself initially, but once I'd found it I couldn't escape it until I switched yeasts. It's definitely a person specific thing.

With regards leaving the beer on the yeast cake, I usually kegged S04 beers 10-14 days after pitching, but I've successfully kegged at 7-8 days and also got away with 30 days under fairly cool conditions - the tartness remained whatever the time scale though, because it's an inherent part of the yeast's flavour profile (much of which is good). If for instance you made a brew with Nottingham, you would find that the tartness disappeared, but so would lots of other things, thereby leaving you with a rather bland tasting beer.

My advice would be to kidnap yourself some Hop Back yeast from a couple of bottles of Summer Lightning, or get yourself some WLP005 from Hop & Grape. You will never return to dried yeasts.

[gnorwebthgimi]

Hi Northern Brewer

Just to reassure you that you are not going mad I have read plenty of posts across the net about people saying that s04 contributes a sour taste. I have also read flavour descriptions that suggest certain yeast's do have this profile and they generally have high flocculating potential (just like s04). However, I suspect that the tartness from s04 depends upon other factors too, in particular water treatment. Just out of interest do you have hard water and do you do any water treatment? In particular do you know if your water has a high carbonate level?

[Northern Brewer]

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. I pop in here rather infrequently these days

My very soft water consists of rain with a hint of peat. I therefore treat it to produce the following...

175ppm Ca – 15ppm Mg – 4.8ppm Na – 7.7ppm CO3 - 284ppm SO4 - 142ppm Cl

I believe that SO4's tartness is a matter of perception. Most people don't notice it, but if you can, it then goes on to annoy you.

[gnorwebthgimi]

I have persisted with this barrel and the flavour has definitely changed in the second month. The tartness is still very much present but a bit more mellow, there is a tiny bit of body but the beer is still quite thin (gravity was 1.010). There is a hop bitterness but there is no hop flavour or aroma.

Having used other yeasts and had similar issues I'm sure that the yeast is not (entirely) to blame so I am eager to find out how well using bottled water goes.

[Fallen]

I'm now fairly convinced that my recent problems are a result of infection/contamination of my King Kegs. Low mash pH may have been causing some other problems but my main off-flavour of tartness, orangey-citrus and a complete lack of hop flavour/aroma and thinness is, I believe, contamination.

The reasoning: I brewed a batch of Tribute in November and put half into a KK and bottled the other half. The bottled stuff is fine, the KK Tribute has exactly the same off flavour as a batch of IPA I brewed back in June ({i.e. totally different recipes). No idea what the contamination might be but the beer is drinkable at first then gradually deteriorates to this orangey, tart horror show.

I need some advice on neuking my KKs to get rid of it. Any suggestions?

Cheers

[staplefordbill]

I need some advice on neuking my KKs to get rid of it. Any suggestions?

Have you tried soaking in hot bleach solution? The keg itself and the tap, float boats if it's a Top Tap keg, lid and O-ring. I soak mine for a few hours and haven't had any problems with it. As long as you keep rinsing until the bleach smell disappears you should be OK. I use a few squirts of Wilkos' own brand thick bleach; doesn't have to be pricey.

[dickon]

I've no idea if this is a good idea or not, but it's worked for me: between brews, I leave my kegs soaking in a solution of VWP. Haven't had any horrors yet with that approach.

[Jim]

Make sure you remove the tap and take it apart to clean it. It's just not possible to do it properly with the whole thing assembled.

[fisherman]

Hello,
Why transfer the grain from your coolbox, make a slotted copper manifold with a pipe to the top of the coolbox. place in the bottom of the coolbox mash add a pipe when mash has finished. convert the pipe to say 10mm or 8 mm and syphon direct from the coolbox.Also have you a test on your water for alkilinity salifert. Take a look at Brupacks water treatment page
Regards
fisherman

[Fallen]

Make sure you remove the tap and take it apart to clean it. It's just not possible to do it properly with the whole thing assembled.

Noted! I usually soak the whole thing in VWP while fully assembled. I'll take it apart and neuk it with a high concentration VWP solution. I'm also about to venture down the StarSan route.

[gnorwebthgimi]

I'm leaning more toward break material as the cause of my problems as changing the water and the yeast didn't help get rid off off flavours but did improve efficiency.

It worked for Soup Dragon and might be worth a look into Fallen.

[soupdragon]

Hi Fallen

As I've posted in other threads, my off flavour seemed to get worse the more break I allowed into the fermenter. As soon as I did a Brew in a bag and used the voile to filter the cooled wort into my fermenter my off flavour disappeared leaving me with beer flavoured beer for a change. Regardless of your mash/sparge method I would recommend a square of voile as a final filter into your fermenter. It certainly won't do any harm

Cheers Tom