Persistent infection nightmare

[lord.president]

I've had many brews look like this and its never been a problem. Taste and smell will be your first tell tails I think. I may be wrong though.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot (maybe most) of mine have looked like this pre infection nightmare. Been so long now since I've brewed a non infected beer that I'm forgetting what a 'normal' fermentation looks like.

I share your pain Davidman. I have been going through this exact same problem all this year and I still am. For my latest brew I replaced my fermenter, filtered the mash run-off as well as the wort run-off. I had the most crystal clear wort ever and pitched 2 sachets of Gervin. A massive, lovely creamy yeast head formed and i thought I'd finally got shut of the problem. WRONG! 2 days in and the yeast head disappeared. Gravity had dropped to just below 1020 as before and has not budged since.
The mouthfeel is slightly prickly, like a lightly carbonated drink. It doesn't taste 'off' but it just doesn't taste right either. On Friday I'm going to brew with 35L of Tesco ashbeck mineral water + salt additions. Yorkshire Water have been out and taken a water sample, which passed their tests for domestic use but I have noticed that when our toilets flush they do leave a small but noticeable black mark in the pan so I'm going to rule out the tap water once and for all.
As far as the deposits on top of your brew are concerned I've had this as well, but not necessarily during these failures. One memorable brew had a Brupaks 'Teabag' of hops in the fermenter and the surface resembled danish blue cheese but it was perfectly alright.
One final comment. All this talk of airborne bacteria does not convince me. All my failures have been exactly the same, 36-48 hours of activity then dead stop and the yeast head has gone. They were all under airlocked lids except the latest one, which just had a non-airlock lid sitting loose on top. The point is the problems have been happening before the yeast head has gone so it's something already in the ale. Also, if airborne bacteria is such a problem how come so many large commercial brewers used open top fermenters?

Are you sanitising the yeast packet and scissors?

[50quidsoundboy]

just to say - i suffered a persistent infection during the summer. i replaced all my hoses, dismantled everything else (taps etc) and hit them hard with heat (boiling or baking) and chemicals (up to and including chlorine). i'm 99% sure the source was actually my plate chiller, for what it's worth.

i've now given up using homebrew chemicals (Star San + Oxi Clean) in favour of peracetic acid and caustic soda, both cheaply available on Ebay and elsewhere. i was a bit scared of using "industrial" chemicals, but actually it's no bother (always wear gloves and goggles though!) and the results are very good both in terms of visual cleanliness (caustic is seriously effective stuff) and in terms of the infection not coming back! also peracetic acid is very cheap compared to Star San, and i suspect it's more effective in my hard water area.

i hope you get it sorted - i found the whole experience very demoralizing, but with perseverance it's a 100% solvable problem. eventually.

[Davidman]

Update for anyone who's interested.

So, a couple of batches down the line since ditching starsan and going with steam, and cutting out the extra bottling bucket.

Don't want to jinx it, but I just might have beaten it. I'll emphasise the might part. I haven't noticed it, but I'm reluctant to get too carried away.

I'm pretty surprised that more people aren't using wallpaper steamers. It's not only more foolproof, but it simplifies the whole process.

Anyway. I'll probably be back on here in about a week whinging about it coming back. The little microbial bastard.

[Piscator]

[orlando]

Update for anyone who's interested.

So, a couple of batches down the line since ditching starsan and going with steam, and cutting out the extra bottling bucket.

Don't want to jinx it, but I just might have beaten it. I'll emphasise the might part. I haven't noticed it, but I'm reluctant to get too carried away.

I'm pretty surprised that more people aren't using wallpaper steamers. It's not only more foolproof, but it simplifies the whole process.

Anyway. I'll probably be back on here in about a week whinging about it coming back. The little microbial bastard.

What do you use on the end of the wallpaper stripper for say a plate chiller or anything with small access?

[matthuds]

Just curious, you seem to finish all of your cleaning with a Starsan rinse. Are you mixing your Starsan with tap or distilled water? are you reusing the diluted Starsan mix?

from what I understand tap water Starsan solution usually has to high of a pH to be effective so you could be rinsing your equipment with an infecting solution rather than a sanitising solution.

I use the Tesco Ashbeck because I read that someone on one of the forums had pH tested various bottled water and that was consistently below the 3pH required for Starsan to work.

[50quidsoundboy]

Star San.....bits of old wallpaper strippers.....just get some peracetic acid. It's dirt cheap and it actually works.

[sbond10]

Star San.....bits of old wallpaper strippers.....just get some peracetic acid. It's dirt cheap and it actually works.

Apart from it needs venting and be highly dangerous is incorrectly handled

[orlando]

I use the Tesco Ashbeck because I read that someone on one of the forums had pH tested various bottled water and that was consistently below the 3pH required for Starsan to work.

Ashbeck water is likely to be pH neutral not 3, you're confusing the fact that Starsan diluted with it produces a solution that is <pH 3. Hard water can turn Starsan milky but it's the pH that matters as long as it is <3 it will do its job, my water is circa 250 ppm of alkalinity, it always turns Starsan milky but this actually goes after a while. Starsan is a very cost effective and safe product to use, it's no rinse qualities make it very attractive. Like anything there are going to be limits of effectiveness, safety or practicality, but as long as your basic cleaning is up to snuff it rarely lets you down.

[matthuds]

@orlando sorry meant the resulting solution of Starsan mixed with Ashbeck is sub 3pH. I have heard it can work with tap water but just thinking maybe if Davids water isn't giving him a sub 3pH starsan solution.

[orlando]

@orlando sorry meant the resulting solution of Starsan mixed with Ashbeck is sub 3pH. I have heard it can work with tap water but just thinking maybe if Davids water isn't giving him a sub 3pH starsan solution.

I did wonder that. There is an old adage in brewing "you can't sanitise dirt". There really are few short cuts when it comes to cleanliness, but if your basic cleaning removes all visible dirt follow that with a cleaner that attacks microbiological "dirt" then a sanitiser, it should rarely if ever be a problem. If you are using some of the more sinister products just make sure the rinsing is done properly. Another old chestnut about Starsan is foaming, this is actually a good thing as the product is designed to cling to surfaces to achieve a longer contact time. Get yourself a small indoor plant sprayer and keep some Starsan in that and you can instantly apply to all sorts of things. Hooking up hoses, give it a squirt with Starsan first? Sticking a thermometer in your cooling wort to see whether you are at pitching temps, squirt with Starsan leave minimum of 30 seconds, 60 better and your good to go.

[Goulders]

Ash beck isn't great anymore as it goes cloudy quickly. Use deionised water