Disheartening - Am I doing something wrong

[Grahame]

Hi guys,

I have 4 AG's under my belt now, all with wildly different recipes and they all taste well.. the same. They are nice, and drinkable, but not up to the standard I would expect in a pub. I just can't understand why no matter what hops or malt I seem to use, I get the same taste.

My brewdays don't differ from the norm that I have learned from here that I can see. I mash at 66C for 90 mins, batch sparge with the liquor at 80C, boil for 90 mins, with hop additions at 90, 15 and 0 mins and cool with my immersion cooler to 24C then pitch rehydrated yeast (tried nottingham and S04 so far). I have adjusted my water chemistry based on Graham's calculator on my latest batch, but there is bugger all difference.

I love the hobby and I am enjoying what I have produced so far, but I am worried I am missing something obvious. You guys seem to be able to produce fantastic beers and my efforts leave something to be desired

G.

[adm]

How long are you leaving them before supping?

[Grahame]

Well I must admit, my latest was only kegged today and I had a sly half of the end of the FV, but all the rest I have left for 3-4 weeks. Should I expect the flavour to change dramatically at times past this?

G.

[oxford brewer]

It is worthwhile leaving them for a few more weeks if you can.The flavours should improve with more conditioning time!
What strength brews are you doing as this will affect the length of time beers need to mature.In general terms it is 1 week conditioning time per 10 gravity points(1.040 beer= 4 weeks,1.060=six weeks).

[Grahame]

thanks Oxford Brewer.

All my brews have been around 1.044 OG. One thing I lack is the ability to control the temperature of my cornis during conditioning. They are in the shed and it is only now getting to around 12C (it was 20C prior to that) maybe that has some bearing on it??

G.

[maxashton]

Conditioning temp can certainly affect things.

Can you link me to an example brew day?

What cleaning products are you using?

Are you using finings at all?

When you say all your brews are the same, how do you mean?

[Whorst]

I drink most of my beers young. You should be able to tell immediately what you're beer is going to taste like. A beer with a starting gravity of 1.050 should be ready to drink in 3 weeks, or possibly even less. For cask I ferment for 7 days, rack into corny with finings and small amount of priming sugar and let condition for 2 weeks. A beer that's 1.044 should ferment out in less than 7 days, and be ready to drink in another 7-10 days.
I would recommend meeting with some club guys, or others brewers and get various opinions on your beer. You could be over sparging, your water could be too hard, there are many variables. Years ago, I was getting burnt, astringent flavors from the Maris Otter I was using. I called my friend Derek, who brewed for Young's. He was right, mash pH was about 6.5! This was largely due to the extremely hard local water I was using. Lactic acid and pH strips solved the problem. Now I use 5.2, which works very well for me. As an experiment, you may want to buy some bottled spring water.

[Grahame]

Conditioning temp can certainly affect things.

Can you link me to an example brew day?

What cleaning products are you using?

Are you using finings at all?

When you say all your brews are the same, how do you mean?

My last brewday thread is at viewtopic.php?t=16019

I use oxyclean and soda crystals to clean things, and iodophor to sanitise everything.

I don't use any finings.

I mean they all just taste exactly the same, no difference in taste at all. and while they are ok, they are nothing spectacular (nowhere near what I would get in a pub). It is like I have brewed numerous batches of the same beer, just no difference

Thanks for your help!

G.

[Grahame]

I drink most of my beers young. You should be able to tell immediately what you're beer is going to taste like. A beer with a starting gravity of 1.050 should be ready to drink in 3 weeks, or possibly even less. For cask I ferment for 7 days, rack into corny with finings and small amount of priming sugar and let condition for 2 weeks. A beer that's 1.044 should ferment out in less than 7 days, and be ready to drink in another 7-10 days.
I would recommend meeting with some club guys, or others brewers and get various opinions on your beer. You could be over sparging, your water could be too hard, there are many variables. Years ago, I was getting burnt, astringent flavors from the Maris Otter I was using. I called my friend Derek, who brewed for Young's. He was right, mash pH was about 6.5! This was largely due to the extremely hard local water I was using. Lactic acid and pH strips solved the problem. Now I use 5.2, which works very well for me. As an experiment, you may want to buy some bottled spring water.

Thanks for the reply, Whorst. I live in a very soft water area (total alkalinity is around 45ppm), and up until my last brew I did no water chemistry besides a campden in the water. I used salts as per Graham's calculator on my most recent brew.

I check my mash pH and I always get 5.2-5.3, which seems to be right.
Good advice RE meeting some brewers. I am moving back to Edinburgh in Scotland in a week or so and once I get settled I will be keen to track down some fellow brewers to sample my efforts.

G.

[Horden Hillbilly]

I mean they all just taste exactly the same, no difference in taste at all.

What yeast did you use on your brews? If you have used a "neutral" yeast, ie Nottingham, you may want to try S04 or a Wyeast/Whitelab/Brewlab yeast.

[Grahame]

I mean they all just taste exactly the same, no difference in taste at all.

What yeast did you use on your brews? If you have used a "neutral" yeast, ie Nottingham, you may want to try S04 or a Wyeast/Whitelab/Brewlab yeast.

Thanks HH, I have used both Nottingham and S04. s04 certainly clears down faster!

Incidentally, your website is absolutely fantastic. I read through that and learned all the technique I needed there to start my first AG. If it was not for that, I would have taken a lot longer to get the gist of things, so for that, I salute you!

G.

[Matt]

For the brew you posted the link to Grahame, IMHO you are heading for a subtle flavour profile - not much maltiness/sweetness due to the low OG and use of pale and wheat; and not a particularly hoppy brew with a mid-ish IBU level and hop additions mainly at the bitterness and aroma ends of the spectrum.

I like this kind of subtle beer and I find that you have to wait for the moment when they come into their own, which I get at about the 2 month (from brewing) mark. Before that they just taste like vaguely sweet vaguely hoppy stuff. That's what I find anyway.

What other recipes did you brew?

Matt

[Grahame]

For the brew you posted the link to Grahame, IMHO you are heading for a subtle flavour profile - not much maltiness/sweetness due to the low OG and use of pale and wheat; and not a particularly hoppy brew with a mid-ish IBU level and hop additions mainly at the bitterness and aroma ends of the spectrum.

I like this kind of subtle beer and I find that you have to wait for the moment when they come into their own, which I get at about the 2 month (from brewing) mark. Before that they just taste like vaguely sweet vaguely hoppy stuff. That's what I find anyway.

What other recipes did you brew?

Matt

That sounds promising Matt as that is exactly what I mean RE taste!

Can you recommend a recipe to try out which has more of a hop and malt character?? I like bitter/best bitter sort of styles. I have a lot of grain here and would be willing to do a test brew to see if this is the answer. What kind of IBU should I be looking at?? around 45?

Thanks!

Grahame

[Matt]

Hi Grahame,

Well, you're not alone … my golden ale batch turned out exactly like that.

I've concluded that this kind of brew has neither malt interest, nor hoppiness, nor lager crispness to make it stand out. Which is I guess why most golden ales are hoppy and 40+ IBU. However the aforementioned subtlety comes through eventually but there is no immediate attraction. I found the same with a Kolsch, but the 3 month old bottles where knockout, so don't lose heart.

For a test brew I'd head for SiHoltye's Briars Best that won the Sutton comp last November.

[maxashton]

Agree with Matt. Do a hoppy bitter with say 250gm wheat, 300 gms crystal, say 5kg mo, fuggles and ekg, fugle for 90 mins and ekg for 30 and at flameout.