Im a bit lost.

[Robdog]

Hi guys im stil new to brewing, just bottled my fourth kit but i really want a go at AG in the new year while ive got a bit of spare cash to get the kit etc.

Now ive been doing alot of reading and so far i know you need to mash the bill first with about 2.5-3 ltrs of water per kg of of grain(i think thats right anyway).

Then i need to sparge from a hot liquour bucket into the mash tun onto the grain then let the wort come out of the mash tun into the boiler.

I get a bit lost when it comes to working out how much liquid i need and this brew house effeciany totally loses me as i imagine some water gets left in the grain then more gets evaporated when boiling so im not sure what to do at all to work it out so i have my correct finished volume plus the correct strength beer.

Im lost as to how much i need to sparge with plus how much should be in the boiler before boiling.

I read on the site yesterday that the first attempt should be kept as simople as possible and this does make sense so my first beer will be a simple one and im not gonna bother with PH readings etc as i just want to get used to the whole process and as i get used to it i can mess around more then to get a better brew.

[Robdog]

So i take a Gravity reading of the wort going into the boiler and stop when it gets to 1006? Do i then add more water to top it up if its say below the 30ltrs you recommend or leave it?

I want to keep things as simple as possible for my first brew.

How can you work your estimation out of what you think you will lose via boil and hops and trub?

[confused]

your quite right to keep things simple for your first brew, choose a good solid recipe (Jim's stock bitter on his how to brew page is a good start)

Assuming a grain bill of around 4.5kg I would strike with 12l of water at 75c (or 73c if you preheat the mash tun). Add the grain, stir in well then take the temperture. Adjust with a little boiling, or cold water as needed, I mash at 67 which is the upper end and gives a fuller bodied beer. 65 is still good and allows a couple of degrees drop without getting below the 62 minimum.

You'll need to have 25l of water available to sparge, I sparge at 77c, a couple of degrees hotter will not be a problem.

I would suggest you keep an eye on your gravity as you sparge. Once you have set up a steady flow thru the mash tun it's easy to pop a trial jar under the runnings every 5 mins and check gravity. I stop at 1.010 which when adjusted for temp is about 0.998-1.000 on the hydro. I hardly ever get that low before I have collected the 30-32 litres I want to go into the boiler.

Once I'm underway on brewday I don't worry too much, I aim for 24-25 litres in the fermenter but if I end up with 20, or 25 so be it.

[Robdog]

Ok cheers lads thats a bit easier to understand. Stout is my favourite drink but im not sure how easy it is as ive read that dark grain alters PH.

Im going to use an insulated Mash tun to mash in one of the picnic type ones so i dont think i need to heat the mash tun so ill use water at 75 and hopefully get a decent strike temp.

I think with the cooler box mash tuns you just run it straight form the mash tun into the boiler but do i turn the sparge water on first then open the tap on the mash tun, adding back the first cloudy wort back to the mash tun the as soon as it clears up a bit just let it flow into the boiler?

TBH ive got my head around the mashing and boiling its just sparging i need to get clear in my mind.

[adm]

You could try batch sparging......it's simpler and easier to get your head around.

There's a wonderful introduction, plus a calculator to work out your volumes here. All written by a certain Chris who has already been responding to your fly sparging comments earlier in this thread!

[Robdog]

Well ive got access to a decent sparge arm like the one on Jims technique pictures so i wanted to use that really. Ive got until the new year anyway so ive got plenty of time to get my head around it:)

Thanks

[Northern Brewer]

I would strongly recommend batch sparging for your first recipes. It's much easier and many brewers produce exactly the same results and efficiency as with fly sparging. It also means you can get away with a single boiler and a mash-tun.

In my case, I mash with 4.5KG grain with 12.5 litres of water in a coolbox mash-tun. Whilst the mash is ongoing I refill my boiler with 22 litres of water which I heat to 80C. Once the mash is complete I transfer 8 litres of the 80C water into the mash-tun, give a good stir then do my first run-off into various pans and buckets. Once that initial run-off is complete, I close the mash-tun's tap and stir into the grains the remaining 14 litres of 80C water, thereby freeing-up the boiler. I then transfer all the initial runnings into the boiler and switch it on to commence the boil. Then I start the second run-off, collecting the runnings into the now free pans and buckets. These are then brought to boil on the household cooker and transferred across to the main boiler once they are boiling, and as boiler space becomes available. This possibly sounds very complicated, but if you think it through you will realise that it's actually very easy. I actually collect my runnings in stock pots, which I put on the stove, so they are usually already boiling once when they join the main boiler.

Whichever way you proceed, not all of the 34.5 litres of water that goes into the mash tun comes out of it, because the grain absorbs something like 6.5 litres. You will also lose a few litres to steam. This doesn't really matter because as long you have marked the 23 litre level on your boiler you can top it up to that mark with boiling water once your boil is complete. I normally need to add about 2-3 litres to achieve this. Following the above method should give you approx 80% brewhouse efficiency; hence an OG of 1046 for 23 litres.

[Robdog]

Cheers for that mate.

So if i fly sparge i need a mash tun was thinking the 32ltr brupaks one advertised at the hop shop, was thnking a 10 gallon boiler with thermostat for the actual boil then say a 5 gallon boiler with thermostat for the HLT plus an immersion chiller.

If i batch sparge i need all of the above except the 5ltr boiler. Mind i would need to buy some stock pots etc.

Ok guys thanks for all the advice it all seems alot clearer now i have it in my mind. Ill have a think and check finances and then see where i go from there.

I dont mind doing kits but theres something about saying to people thats my own beer, recipe and all that i find very appealing.

[Northern Brewer]

I've knocked out over 200 AGs with nowt but a coolbox mash-tun and a 20 litre Burco. With a 10 gallon boiler you wouldn't need stock pots because the first runnings can temporarily go into buckets whilst they wait for the boiler to become free. You would then add the second runnings to the main boil as they became available. As for coolers, I must be the only person on here who doesn't use one. I just bang the lid on my boiler and point a circulating fan at it for a few hours, or leave it overnight to cool. My beer ends up just as bright as any commercial pint. Keep it simple is my motto, and save your money for cornies

[shedman]

You only really need 1 boiler, big enough for the boil. I collect the wort from the sparge in a fermenting bucket then transfer back to the boiler by pan after sparging has complete. It also allows me to be certain of the volume Ive collected.

Re amount of liquor, I never go though the water calculations, just make sure you have plenty for spargingie whilst the mash is going I refill my boiler, 25ltr plus whay comes out of the mash tun is always ample. Theres plenty of time to boil the water in time for the sparge, as said previously check gravity towards the end of the sprge and stop around 1.006`ish or whenever youve collected enough. Any sparge liquor left I tend to leave in the boiler as this will be lost due to evaporation and if required top up after cooling and before pitching.

[Robdog]

The only reason i was thinking 2 boilers is ill do anything for an easy life . Plus the misses said as long as its my crimbo presant i can have both of them and a mash tun . TBH i didnt know we had the cash spare so she must have a bit tucked away as im not the best with money.

Plus im thinking ahead a little to when im a little more experianced if i say go for 2 x 10 gallon boliers now i can always brew more as i get the hang of it.

Hope and Grape do a nice set up which is a 30ltr mash tun, 10 gallon bolier and 10 gallon FV and i think you get hop strainer etc, i think thats about 160 with a thermostat then i think all ill need then is another 10 gallon plain standard boiler and eventually i can do 10 gallon batches which again id like to do as i may aswell bre 10 than 5.

Only thing im concerned about though is whether i could fit say 10kg grain plus the water needed for mashing in a 30 ltr tun as by my calculations i would need approx 30ltrs of water plus the grain hence i was looking at the Brupaks 32ltr mash tub but again its an extra tenner for just 2 ltrs of space.

I like a nice full bodied strong drink myself so perhaps im better going for the cheaper set up and doing 5 gallon batches.

[Robdog]

If i did go the 2 boiler route i take it the boiler i use to actually do the boil wouldnt need to have a thermostat? I cant see a 5 gallon brew boiling over in a 10 gallon boiler or could it?

Id prob get a thermostat on the other boiler just to make sure the sparge water was at the correct temp or am i overcomplicating things which is what i normally do.

[pokerswazi]

one thing i think you don't really need is 2 thermostats. the boiler won't need one and you can easily get by without one at all. if you batch sparge (recommended if you'll do anything for an easy brew) all you really need is a good thermometer with your hlt.

best of luck, you'll be amazed at how easy it really is...

[adm]

I wouldn't worry about a thermostat on the boiler myself! Boiling is pretty much boiling after all.

You can JUST fit a 10kg mash into the H&G mash tun.

I bought the same H&G 10g kit and it's a good 'un. It's better to get two elements in the boiler than the thermostat though in my opinion.

BTW - it's one 60l boiler and one 60l fermentig vessel - not two boilers. But it's a good AG set up nonetheless.

[Parva]

If you do decide to get the H&G kit (as many on here including myself have done) don't bother paying extra for the thermostat but do get the 10g boiler fitted with two elements. I've only done 5g brews up till now and even with two elements it takes a while to get a good boil going before dropping to one, I dread to think what it would be like on a 10g batch with a single element.

Also, you are correct about the problems with the Thermos mash tun. They reckon that it's possible to do a 10g batch with it and you could certainly do it if fly-sparging but at the quantities of grain I'm using and batch sparging, no chance! I am in fact doing my first 10g brew tomorrow (Summer Lightening) but I'm going to mash twice before boiling it all together, no way could I get a near 11Kg grain bill and about 34 litres of water in there.

One tip if you do buy the boiler from there, remove the hop strainer and drill a series of 3mm holes in it (or in my case a few 5mm holes as I didn't have a small enough bit). Failure to do this will undoubtedly result in your wort getting stuck as many here have experienced. Many have replaced the strainer as they believe that too much liquid is left behind but mine seems to leave around 0.8l so I've kept it as is and am happy with that.