Cloudiness at flameout

[Tensbrewer]

Hi

I have had a slight problem with my last two brews. I have on both occasions been making a pale bitter and have been troubled with a haziness/cloudiness that has appeared soon after I put my immersion cooler into the hot wort for sterilisation just before flameout. The wort goes off the boil at that point unitl the boiler gets back up to heat and I get a sudden appearance of a cloudiness or haze in the liquid. This seems to stay in the beer throughout fermentation and maturation - the first time this happened was in a batch which has been bottled for 5 weeks by which time I would expect it to be clear.

The beer is pretty basic stuff, 5kg Maris O, 0.2kg wheat malt, hopped with Halletau and Goldings early and late to ~40EBU. I cool with an immersion chiller made out of microbore copper and have used it in about 6 previous batches (with various grain/hop combos) which have been OK. Is the introduction of the cooler and the slight drop in temp followed by the increase back to boiling point causing some sort of reaction? Or any other ideas??

Any help or comments welcomed.

[bramswell]

I put my immersion cooler into the hot wort for sterilisation just before flameout.

i have mine in for at least 15mins before flame out.

you could pre warm the cooler in and empty FV with boiling water so that it wont cool the wort as you put it in.

what boil time are you doing 60 or 90 mins
i think you get better hot break at a 90 min boil, i may be wrong, but im sure someone will correct me if this is incorrect.

[Tensbrewer]

Bramswell and Chris-x1, I am using a 90 minute boil and I add Irish Moss (a teaspoon) ~15 minutes from the end of the boil. I think I will try pre-heating the coil next time so as to avoid a drop off the boil at the point of immersion.

Thanks for your help, any other thoughts welcomed.

[JammyBStard]

I connect my chiller directly to the cold tap, I could connect it to the hot tap and raise the temp that way; I dont know how you connect your chiller, but you might be able to do the same. I'll be trying it next time.

[Chiltern Brewer]

It does sound like a protein haze... my only other thought was how clean was the IC before you dipped it into your boiling wort?

Assuming it is a protein haze from under-cooked wort:

Do you get a good rolling boil for the full 90 minutes? When I used my old boiler with its simmerstat it would cut in and out every few minutes, so in the end I plugged a kettle lead directly into the element to get a consistent boil.

If you are worried about the IC taking the heat (and length) out of your boil, why not boil the wort for 15 minutes before you add your hops to compensate?

Use a decent amount of Irish moss and rehydrate it before adding it to the wort with some boiling water from a kettle. Personally I'd use a least a tablespoon or enough to get a "mugful of gloop" to pour into your wort.

Regarding bottling, as per GW's writings I always mature in keg first so that I know the beer has dropped bright before it goes into a bottle.

[hoppingMad]

I don't think it will be the slight cooling of the boiling wort as the chiller goes in. This always happens and never causes any problems.

I've had this similar cloudiness happen to me on my last batch and have yet to discover what caused it although I suspect it happened as the immersion chiller was doing its job and about 1/2 way through just as the cold break should have formed I added 2 litres of near boiling water to top up my volume. This was a dumb thing to do as it almost certainly interupted the process of the cold break just as it was forming ( I think ! ) hard to say.

The only other things I can think of is that you are doing too short of a boil ??? (unlikely) or maybe you have not been boiling rapidly enough the last two brews ? and not acheiving a good hot break. Also ( and I'm no chemist) did you scrub your copper immersion chiller before plunging it into the hot wort ? I'm wondering if a chemical reaction has taken place caused by the residue on the copper. Come to think of it, I always do scrub, but last time I did not.... !!! Hmmmmm.
Hopp.

[Tensbrewer]

Thanks for these thoughts guys, I do usually make sure the IC is clean before immersion but have never given it a thorough scrub, will try this as well as a little extra moss. I have always been slightly scared of too much moss taking out the protein from the wheat which I am adding to achieve a more stable head but will try at least a couple of teaspoons next time round.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[Stonechat]

I'd try Protafloc.

[yashicamat]

I suspect, like others, the problem here is the irish moss. Out of the last 3 brews I've done, 2 were using whirlfloc, and today I used irish moss as I'm out of whirlfloc. Comparatively very murky wort, despite a good boil. On past experience, this should still clear fine, but probably not as quickly.

I shall be ordering some protofloc from Paul pronto.

[Tensbrewer]

Thanks for further input folks.

I will get some Whirlfloc, without going all hippy on you, I have been a little cautious about adding much to my wort and quite liked the moss as it was obviously just little dried seaweed fronds. I understand though that Whirlfloc is just purified from seaweed so probably doesn't need to worry my "anti-chemical" side too much.

I will give it a punt in my next brew, I am due to send off an order for some hops and sundries anyway so will include Whirlfloc.

Thanks again for your help.