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(im a bit think 
)Anyone know were i can get some easy and understandable info on the subject ,dummies guide maybe !!!!!
Efficiency! Help
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mr.c
Efficiency! Help
Been reading a lot of posts about brewing Efficiency whether its on water,hops,grain suger, im still none the wiser (im a bit think )
Anyone know were i can get some easy and understandable info on the subject ,dummies guide maybe !!!!!
(im a bit think )Anyone know were i can get some easy and understandable info on the subject ,dummies guide maybe !!!!!
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steve_flack
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PieOPah
I don't know whether or not I am working out my efficiency incorrectly or not....
But here goes....
Basically I work out a recipe for a given volume (normally 40 pints but recently I have reduced this to 35)
Eg for a FINAL volume of 40 pints the 100% efficiency is a gravity of 1.056
Now my biggest problem has been that I don't get enough wort. So, I have a gravity of 1.036 which gives me an efficiency of 64.29% however, I have only managed to collect 35 pints. Since my recipe is based on collecting 40 pints, I make up the difference with water. This reduces my gravity to 1.024. This means my efficiency is 42.86%
In the example, the figures are completely random (except the efficiency based on the initial gravity figure).
As I said, I am not sure whether or not this is the correct way of working out your efficiency, but it is how I have been doing it.
More recently (yesterday) I changed my method of sparging. Well, I didn't - I just took into account the amount of wort I would lose due to a variety of factors. This meant that I collected the final required volume of wort. Because of this I didn't need to top up with water (some people have spare wort from their sparge which I ended up with so used that instead of water)
A little long winded, but hopefully you understand a little better.
But here goes....
Basically I work out a recipe for a given volume (normally 40 pints but recently I have reduced this to 35)
Eg for a FINAL volume of 40 pints the 100% efficiency is a gravity of 1.056
Now my biggest problem has been that I don't get enough wort. So, I have a gravity of 1.036 which gives me an efficiency of 64.29% however, I have only managed to collect 35 pints. Since my recipe is based on collecting 40 pints, I make up the difference with water. This reduces my gravity to 1.024. This means my efficiency is 42.86%
In the example, the figures are completely random (except the efficiency based on the initial gravity figure).
As I said, I am not sure whether or not this is the correct way of working out your efficiency, but it is how I have been doing it.
More recently (yesterday) I changed my method of sparging. Well, I didn't - I just took into account the amount of wort I would lose due to a variety of factors. This meant that I collected the final required volume of wort. Because of this I didn't need to top up with water (some people have spare wort from their sparge which I ended up with so used that instead of water)
A little long winded, but hopefully you understand a little better.
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Scooby
It's right here on the forum. See Jims hints and tips, Recipe formulation.Anyone know were i can get some easy and understandable info on the subject
Work out your potential max extraction for you recipe, and then take the og of your brew, so Jims recipe's max extraction = 58.7 if the og is 48
48/58.7 x 100 = 81.77% Simple
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mr.c
No my head hurts sorry still do not get it,maybe a demo plz
how would you work the potential extract of this Recipe ????
this will be my next brew so like to try this out
5 gal (23 litres)
4kg of pale malt
250g of flaked maize
250g of torrefied wheat
100g crystal malt
i can not make jims one add up
yes i have probably missed some think out, it all going tits up on me
how would you work the potential extract of this Recipe ????
this will be my next brew so like to try this out
5 gal (23 litres)
4kg of pale malt
250g of flaked maize
250g of torrefied wheat
100g crystal malt
i can not make jims one add up
yes i have probably missed some think out, it all going tits up on me
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Scooby
mr.c your head will hurt no longer 
Look at the table in Jims recipe formulation piece and you will see extract for 1kg in 1 litre for all your ingredients except torrified wheat, the figure for that will be about the same as crystal malt, multiply the weight of the grains by the extract figures and devide by brew length
4x300/23 = 52.17
0.25x300/23 = 3.26
0.25x240/23 = 2.6
0.1x240/23 = 1.04
Add them all up = 59.07 degrees
Lets say you do this brew and collect 23l at 1.044
44/59 x 100 = 74.58%
I hope I haven't had any inger trouble
Look at the table in Jims recipe formulation piece and you will see extract for 1kg in 1 litre for all your ingredients except torrified wheat, the figure for that will be about the same as crystal malt, multiply the weight of the grains by the extract figures and devide by brew length
4x300/23 = 52.17
0.25x300/23 = 3.26
0.25x240/23 = 2.6
0.1x240/23 = 1.04
Add them all up = 59.07 degrees
Lets say you do this brew and collect 23l at 1.044
44/59 x 100 = 74.58%
I hope I haven't had any inger trouble
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PieOPah
It might be even easier if you use some brewing software to help you 
Beersmith has a 30 day (IIRC) trial
ProMash has an unlimited trial with limited features
I personally use Beertools Pro but you have to pay for that with no trial. The more I use it the more I am happy with paying for it.
With all the programs you generally enter your grain bill and it will tell you what he expeted gravity will be based on an efficiency you feed in. If you put an efficiency of 100% you will know what the gravity will be at 100%. I fyou then take your gravity reading, you will know what efficiency you got (Manually working it out).
With Beertools Pro, you enter your gravity and it adjusts your efficiency automatically.... It is the only program I have seen hat does that for you (one of the reasons like it)
Beersmith has a 30 day (IIRC) trial
ProMash has an unlimited trial with limited features
I personally use Beertools Pro but you have to pay for that with no trial. The more I use it the more I am happy with paying for it.
With all the programs you generally enter your grain bill and it will tell you what he expeted gravity will be based on an efficiency you feed in. If you put an efficiency of 100% you will know what the gravity will be at 100%. I fyou then take your gravity reading, you will know what efficiency you got (Manually working it out).
With Beertools Pro, you enter your gravity and it adjusts your efficiency automatically.... It is the only program I have seen hat does that for you (one of the reasons like it)
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eskimobob
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SteveD
Hi, I'm new on this forum but not that new to mashing (about 60 mashes under my belt).
With efficiency calculations the only piece of information you need look up are the 'lab extract' figures for whatever grains and sugars you're using to make up the wort. The lab extract figure is the maximum extract figure obtainable mashing 1 kilo of grain in 1 litre of water under lab conditions. Pale malt comes out around 300 (brewers degrees) ie OG 1300. The better suppliers quote extract figures for their grains, which is handy. Graham Wheeler published a list of extract figures for the most commonly used ingredients in his 'Home Brewing' book, which I tend to refer to.
Obviously there are variations from batch to batch, but there you go.
The rest of the figures you'll obtain from your brewing.
The calculation is as follows
OG x Vol
----------- = Efficiency
Ext x Wgt
OG is expressed in brewer's degrees eg 56, not 1056. and is the OG of your wort after any topping up, and before the yeast goes in. (note, hydrometers are accurate at 20c)
VOL is your final volume of wort before yeast pitching, ie after topping up, in litres.
EXT is the lab extract figure you looked up, also in brewers degrees.
WGT is weight of grain/sugar in Kg's used in your recipe. If you're using, say, 100g of roast barley you express it as 0.1 kg in the calculation
If you are using more than one grain or sugar you need to calculate the Ext x Wgt figure seperately for each one, and add the totals to give one value below the line
It's straightforward but you do need those extract figures....
I often get over 90% particularly since I got a converted Picnic cooler box type mash tun with the copper straining manifold.
I hope this helps,
Cheers,
With efficiency calculations the only piece of information you need look up are the 'lab extract' figures for whatever grains and sugars you're using to make up the wort. The lab extract figure is the maximum extract figure obtainable mashing 1 kilo of grain in 1 litre of water under lab conditions. Pale malt comes out around 300 (brewers degrees) ie OG 1300. The better suppliers quote extract figures for their grains, which is handy. Graham Wheeler published a list of extract figures for the most commonly used ingredients in his 'Home Brewing' book, which I tend to refer to.
Obviously there are variations from batch to batch, but there you go.
The rest of the figures you'll obtain from your brewing.
The calculation is as follows
OG x Vol
----------- = Efficiency
Ext x Wgt
OG is expressed in brewer's degrees eg 56, not 1056. and is the OG of your wort after any topping up, and before the yeast goes in. (note, hydrometers are accurate at 20c)
VOL is your final volume of wort before yeast pitching, ie after topping up, in litres.
EXT is the lab extract figure you looked up, also in brewers degrees.
WGT is weight of grain/sugar in Kg's used in your recipe. If you're using, say, 100g of roast barley you express it as 0.1 kg in the calculation
If you are using more than one grain or sugar you need to calculate the Ext x Wgt figure seperately for each one, and add the totals to give one value below the line
It's straightforward but you do need those extract figures....
I often get over 90% particularly since I got a converted Picnic cooler box type mash tun with the copper straining manifold.
I hope this helps,
Cheers,
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Western Brewer
Don't worry Mr. C. It makes my head hurt as well. I'm posting to see if someone can work out the efficency of my brew today.
It's got;
6lbs Pale Malt
4oz Crystal
1lb barley Syrup
14oz Light soft brown sugar.
I,ve got Beersmith but it doesn't have Barley Syrup in it. Plus there's loads of different crystal malts.
Anyway Dave Line reckons the OG should be 1046 and I got 1044. so I must of been close. I did a starch end point test for the first time today and after a 90 minute mash it stayed brown so conversion must of been complete, so does this mean that I got a 100% efficency. That I don't believe for a minute. So therefore did the sugar and barley syrup boost the efficency up.
Thanks for any advice. I freely admit that I am a complete duffer when it comes to math.
Regards, Western (my brain hurts) Brewer
It's got;
6lbs Pale Malt
4oz Crystal
1lb barley Syrup
14oz Light soft brown sugar.
I,ve got Beersmith but it doesn't have Barley Syrup in it. Plus there's loads of different crystal malts.
Anyway Dave Line reckons the OG should be 1046 and I got 1044. so I must of been close. I did a starch end point test for the first time today and after a 90 minute mash it stayed brown so conversion must of been complete, so does this mean that I got a 100% efficency. That I don't believe for a minute. So therefore did the sugar and barley syrup boost the efficency up.
Thanks for any advice. I freely admit that I am a complete duffer when it comes to math.
Regards, Western (my brain hurts) Brewer
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Scooby
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SteveD
Agree, being 2 degrees out is nothing. There could be any number of reasons aside from extraction efficiency why it might not be exactly 100% completely spot on.
One might be volume. Do you know for sure that your fermenting buckets hold what you think they hold? Those printed markings on the sides of the standard 5 gal fermenting bin are definitely approximate. I calibrated my vessels a few years ago..they were all inaccurate as originally marked. just 1 litre out in a 23l (5 gal) brew would noticeably affect your OG reading, about 1.7 degrees at OG 1040. If your vessel underestimates what it holds, you'll think your efficiency is worse than it is, as you don't quite hit target gravities. If it's the other way, then you'll think you're extraction efficiency is better than it really is. The differences become more noticeable at higher gravities.
Another might be your hydrometer. Have you calibrated it/them? I've got four, only one reads true, the others are between 1 and 3 degrees out. It should read zero in pure water at a reference temperature, usually 20c. Check it. The correct temperature will be on the hyrometer somewhere.
Third thing..That is also the temperature your wort should be when you take your readings. At other wort temperatures you need to apply corrections to the gravity readings, upwards for hotter, downwards for colder.
Fourth thing...while on temperature; thermometers. Are they accurate? I've got two, and they differ by 2c or so. Calibrate in boiling water. Mind you a degree or two doesn't make much difference.
Extraction efficiency is an indicator of how good your technique is, how well your mashing equipment works, and also how good your ingredients are, so if you're substantially lower in your gravity readings than you expect I'd look at those things one by one. If you're only a degree or two out...it could be anything and homebrewing isn't an exact science anyway!
Cheers,
Steve
One might be volume. Do you know for sure that your fermenting buckets hold what you think they hold? Those printed markings on the sides of the standard 5 gal fermenting bin are definitely approximate. I calibrated my vessels a few years ago..they were all inaccurate as originally marked. just 1 litre out in a 23l (5 gal) brew would noticeably affect your OG reading, about 1.7 degrees at OG 1040. If your vessel underestimates what it holds, you'll think your efficiency is worse than it is, as you don't quite hit target gravities. If it's the other way, then you'll think you're extraction efficiency is better than it really is. The differences become more noticeable at higher gravities.
Another might be your hydrometer. Have you calibrated it/them? I've got four, only one reads true, the others are between 1 and 3 degrees out. It should read zero in pure water at a reference temperature, usually 20c. Check it. The correct temperature will be on the hyrometer somewhere.
Third thing..That is also the temperature your wort should be when you take your readings. At other wort temperatures you need to apply corrections to the gravity readings, upwards for hotter, downwards for colder.
Fourth thing...while on temperature; thermometers. Are they accurate? I've got two, and they differ by 2c or so. Calibrate in boiling water. Mind you a degree or two doesn't make much difference.
Extraction efficiency is an indicator of how good your technique is, how well your mashing equipment works, and also how good your ingredients are, so if you're substantially lower in your gravity readings than you expect I'd look at those things one by one. If you're only a degree or two out...it could be anything and homebrewing isn't an exact science anyway!
Cheers,
Steve