Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

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simple one
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Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by simple one » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:16 am

Being a long term country wine fan, and a medium term AG fan, I am slightly confused about something. Its not something that stops me brewing, but it is something that I try and get my head round and justify.

When I make a country wine it will start about 1100 for arguements sake, drop to around 1020. Fermentation will slow, in to secondary, where fermentation will continue for months. Reaching 1005 - 0995 dropping clear before racking, maturing and bottling.

When I make a beer it will start around 1050 for arguements sake, drop to around 1014. Clear and bottle with primer.

..... I understand that the 1014 will mainly be made up of unfermentables. My question is this, is there some residual sugars left in the beer which will keep fermenting. Will whilst in the bottle, as it conditions drop to 1010 for instance. Do the computer calcs take this in to consideration. Would a beer with no priming sugar eventually produce carbanation (as some people have written in some brewing books).

Also why do most/many home brew books say that the FG should be 1000? Is this a throw back to when kit beers were mainly cheap sugars?

Thanks Matt

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Reg
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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by Reg » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:40 pm

I'm not sure Dave Line or Graham Wheeler would subscribe to that view. (FG1000 that is). What books are you reading? ;)

grumpysod

Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by grumpysod » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:43 pm

As Simple One is a country wine fan, he's probably read some of CJJ Berry's finest works. ;)

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simple one
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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by simple one » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:46 pm

Sorry for not answering my posts, computer trouble.

First of all thanks for the posts, shed a light on a few things. Very interesting post Chris.

First, the FG 1000 was originally from a leaflet in a brew kit. It wouldnt drop below 1014, yet the instructions said it be 1000 and never under any circumstances be bottled above 1010. After 4 days I risked it, placing all bottles in brown cardboard thinking the explosions where just around the corner. CJJ Berrys book also suggests that beer should always be under 1010, personally out of around 20 AGs I have only found 2 maybe 3 that did. My last porter was a 1060SG to a 1019FG! (yes I use S04 and enjoy my non fermentables) I take it CJJ Berry is not the best author of HB books??

Secondly, Is alcohol creation by the yeast similar to a half life like property? I have noticed that most books say that the fastest use of sugars is the initial couple of days, slowing in direct proportion to time vs. sugars. Which would suggest that there would always be some residual fermentable sugar left? Or am I off the mark.... This would explain the long ferment to dryness in wine.....

Stupidly over complicated question, but it intrests me!

thanks

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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by arturobandini » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:22 pm

CJJ Berry is a country wine maker and should be treated as such. His forays into beer are far too basic and unhelpful as he treats beer in the same regard one would when making country wine. That said there are much better wine brewers books to be had than the completely outdated "First steps in..." or any of Berry's others. Ben Turner stands out in my view.
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simple one
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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by simple one » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:57 pm

Thanks again.

So it is its fermentation of the easier sugar to the harder sugars which produce the slowing down of the latter stages of the primary/secondary fermentation. Rather than a half life situation (most biological processes tend function in a half life style, ie over 10 hours half the glucose is used, ten more hours, another half, and so on and on. Slowing down but never reaching a true zero).

My CJJ Berry book is going toward the bin now. Can anyone suggest a HB book which has a more advanced/chemical/biological background for me to buy?

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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by simple one » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Thanks, reading palmers now. Its very good, just the right amount of depth for me at the mo.

Cheers Chris

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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by simple one » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:57 am

So is there a case for under pitching in some fruit beers or sweeter beers? Especially if your force carbonating them?

mshergold

Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by mshergold » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:59 pm

I too have Berry's First Steps... and 130 New Recipes. They really annoying thing about Berry is that he makes statements such as 'ferment as normal' which is fine if you're not new and 'ferment as normal' seems to depend upon the recipe.

Kristoff

Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by Kristoff » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:15 pm

For my birthday last week, my sister in law got me a brewing book off amazon, I was expecting Grahams new book, as its the best selling one, but
NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
She got me
Home Brewed Beers and Stouts, by CJJ Berry
I really can't believe its still in print, it needs to be read to realise how out of date it is (It was probably never in date)
Why is it still being published? And why has it sold 700,000 copies (according to the back cover)
It's actually quite a good read - if you take it for what it is.
Fancy some Gravy browning in your brew :shock:

CJJ Berry RIP - so should his books :wink:

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Re: Final Gravity - Beer vs. Wine

Post by jamesb » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:28 pm

Kristoff wrote: Fancy some Gravy browning in your brew :shock:
Not as daft as it sounds. Gravy Browning is only caramel, which many commerical brewers use for colouring.

Whether there's a massive difference between culinery caramel and brewers caramel wrt to preservatives, etc I don't know but I doubt it.
James

"When you have lost your inns, drown your empty selves, for you will have lost the last of England."
Hilaire Belloc, Preface to The Four Men (1911) ...

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