Where am I Going Wrong

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garwatts

Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:37 pm

Did AG#3 today a Donnington SBA from Graham's book

Donnington SBA
Date: 13 Mar 09
Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 1 lbs. 11.7 oz 335 grams 7.9%
Pale Malt 5 EBC 8 lbs. 15.2 oz 3610 grams 85.1%
Sugar, Household White 0 EBC 1 lbs. 10.3 oz 295 grams 7%


Hop Variety Type Alpha Time lb: oz grams Ratio
Fuggle Whole 4.9 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 2.1 oz 61 grams 100%


Final Volume: 25 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.040
Final Gravity: 1.008
Alcohol Content: 4.1% ABV
Total Liquor: 34.5 Litres
Mash Liquor: 9.9 Litres
Bitterness: 32 EBU
Colour: 19 EBC

Batch sparged
1st mash 90 mins with 10 litres run off 4 litres at OG 1.086
2nd sparge 15 mins with 12 litres run off 11.5 litres OG 1.070
3rd sparge 15 mins with 12 litres run off 11 litres OG 1.026

Thought the wort is a bit shy of total required?
Go for 4th sparge 15 mins with 3 litres run off 2.5 litres OG 1.004

Check combined overall SG 1.030? :shock: prior to adding 4th spargings....Decide to 4th spargings as SG is so low....Don't know why cos the average of the first three should be higher than 1.030? So ditch the last runnings.....Do 90 minute boil and final SG comes out at 1.052 #-o Damn! I know I'm green but.....
Last edited by garwatts on Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scooby

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by Scooby » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:23 pm

My observations:

From my experience 1L/kg of grain is lost plus dead space in tun. 4L from 10L with 4Kg of grain seems a lot, have you checked the dead space?

26.5L pre boil is not enough for 25L final vol. Check your calcs. I reckon you need 33L pre boil with 10%/hr lost to evaporation and about 3L to hops/dead space.

Did you temp adjust your 1.030 reading.

What vol did you end up with in the fermenter at 1.052

I think you miss calculated your vols as a total of 34.5L is not enough for a 25 L batch when you take into account that absorbed by the grain, dead space in the tun, evaporation, losses to hops and dead space in the boiler.

Hope that goes some way to helping you pinpoint the problem.

BTW you could have topped up with cold water to the required og, there is probably a calculator somewhere but this is what I use:

water req = (og x o vol)/ fg -ov

eg 52 x 19 / 40 - 19 = 5.7l required so 24.7l in the fermenter.

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Eric
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Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by Eric » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:11 pm

Not sure you are going wrong. How did you arrive at that OG of 1.030?

By calculation from your initial readings I think it should have been 1.054. ((4 X 1.086) + (11.5 X 1.070) + (11 X 1.026)) / 26.5 = average OG = 1.054

Eric.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:34 pm

Eric wrote:Not sure you are going wrong. How did you arrive at that OG of 1.030?

By calculation from your initial readings I think it should have been 1.054. ((4 X 1.086) + (11.5 X 1.070) + (11 X 1.026)) / 26.5 = average OG = 1.054

Eric.
Yes that's what I thought but it was definitely 1.030 pre boil and approx 1.052 post boil. I guess the addition of sugar puts it up somewhat :?:

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:56 pm

Scooby wrote:My observations:

From my experience 1L/kg of grain is lost plus dead space in tun. 4L from 10L with 4Kg of grain seems a lot, have you checked the dead space?

26.5L pre boil is not enough for 25L final vol. Check your calcs. I reckon you need 33L pre boil with 10%/hr lost to evaporation and about 3L to hops/dead space.

Did you temp adjust your 1.030 reading.

What vol did you end up with in the fermenter at 1.052

I think you miss calculated your vols as a total of 34.5L is not enough for a 25 L batch when you take into account that absorbed by the grain, dead space in the tun, evaporation, losses to hops and dead space in the boiler.

Hope that goes some way to helping you pinpoint the problem.

BTW you could have topped up with cold water to the required og, there is probably a calculator somewhere but this is what I use:

water req = (og x o vol)/ fg -ov

eg 52 x 19 / 40 - 19 = 5.7l required so 24.7l in the fermenter.
Thanks for that Scooby - I will remember that (hopefully)...Can you just explain the formula a little more, I understand the og and fg but where does the 19 come from? Too late to top up now I've pitched the yeast? I think I probably stumbled at the first hurdle looking at the figures again - I suspect I miscounted and mashed with 8 litres instead of 10 #-o #-o Another senior moment. I'm not certain what the final volume was but will soon know when I come to bottle it. I have now done a total of 3 AGs and each one has come out with high SGs and I got out 33 and 34 pints respectively with the first two, which would explain why the final SG is too high?
Also I find that brewing with Safale 04 is completely different beast to that supplied with the kits.

I might be green but I know one thing and that the end product tastes brilliant :mrgreen:

Scooby

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by Scooby » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:18 pm

Yep, the 19 is the original volume collected, so I collect 19L at 1.052 but was aiming for 1.040.

It seems you need more volume in your batch sparge, is 12l the max your tun takes with that amount of grain? My tun is a bit small and I do the same as you, drain the mash then do 2 equal sparges.

Do you use this Batch SpargeCalculator. If you use it to calculate the total vol required then drain the tun as you do and divide the remaining liquor into two or three sparges it may solve you problem.

The end product is what matters and unless you really balls thing up the beer makes itself :D


I was hoping to get to the Three Castles this week but haven't managed so will try next week :wink:

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:21 am

Scooby wrote:Yep, the 19 is the original volume collected, so I collect 19L at 1.052 but was aiming for 1.040.
It seems you need more volume in your batch sparge, is 12l the max your tun takes with that amount of grain? My tun is a bit small and I do the same as you, drain the mash then do 2 equal sparges.
Do you use this Batch SpargeCalculator. If you use it to calculate the total vol required then drain the tun as you do and divide the remaining liquor into two or three sparges it may solve you problem.
The end product is what matters and unless you really balls thing up the beer makes itself :D
I was hoping to get to the Three Castles this week but haven't managed so will try next week :wink:
Thanks for the link, haven't used that but will try it out as we are having another brew today and hopefully get somewhere nearer :) Will let you know how it goes

Scooby

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by Scooby » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:26 am

Good Luck :wink:

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:18 pm

Scooby wrote:Good Luck :wink:
Thanks. Just finished a St Peters Ruby Ale. Mashed with 13 litres and two sparges with 12 litres collected 29.5 litres and for good luck added another 2 litres of boiled water. Final volume not sure yet but OG should have been 1.042 and came in at 1.043 \:D/ :pink: :pink: :pink: \:D/ :boff: Strange thing tho was had a very vigorous boil throughout the first 75 minutes and actually experienced my first boil over #-o What factors can cause that :?: I used US goldings for hops for the first time.

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oxford brewer
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Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by oxford brewer » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:14 pm

garwatts wrote: Strange thing tho was had a very vigorous boil throughout the first 75 minutes and actually experienced my first boil over #-o What factors can cause that :?: I used US goldings for hops for the first time.
Not paying attention can cause boil overs Garry #-o #-o Dont you remember at mine :roll: :roll:
Hows it all going?
Only the fool, in the abundance of water is thirsty!!
The Right Honourable Robert Nesta Marley

Drinking

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nobby

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by nobby » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:43 pm

One of the reason you SG is high after the boil is the Sugar. Also did you correct for Temp??

Also you LB to Grams conversions are incorrect

Crystal 1LB 11.7oz is 790Grams

Sugar 1LB 10oz is 735Grams

Pale Malt 8LB 8oz is 4.054Kgs

Scooby

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by Scooby » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:11 pm

garwatts wrote:
Thanks. Just finished a St Peters Ruby Ale. Mashed with 13 litres and two sparges with 12 litres collected 29.5 litres and for good luck added another 2 litres of boiled water. Final volume not sure yet but OG should have been 1.042 and came in at 1.043 \:D/ :pink: :pink: :pink: \:D/ :boff: Strange thing tho was had a very vigorous boil throughout the first 75 minutes and actually experienced my first boil over #-o What factors can cause that :?: I used US goldings for hops for the first time.

Excellent, glad it worked out for you 8)

As OB said I find turning my back on it induces a boil over :lol: I reckon from what you said you collected more wort in the boiler than usual so you had less head space, in future keep an eye on it and bat it down, turn the heat off for a few secs or have a jug of cold water handy just to quieten it down a bit. Well done =D>

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:29 pm

oxford brewer wrote:
garwatts wrote: Strange thing tho was had a very vigorous boil throughout the first 75 minutes and actually experienced my first boil over #-o What factors can cause that :?: I used US goldings for hops for the first time.
Not paying attention can cause boil overs Garry #-o #-o Dont you remember at mine :roll: :roll:
Hows it all going?
Hi Colin
Never left it once but had to keep turning the boiler on and off all the time :shock: ???The boil was a lot more vigorous than I have experienced before.
Finally achieved the right result today target 1.042 achieved 1.043 :pink: :pink:
Also had a taste of the Cotleigh and the Archers (I know too soon:roll: :roll: ) but it was lovely =D>

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:34 pm

Scooby wrote:
garwatts wrote:
Thanks. Just finished a St Peters Ruby Ale. Mashed with 13 litres and two sparges with 12 litres collected 29.5 litres and for good luck added another 2 litres of boiled water. Final volume not sure yet but OG should have been 1.042 and came in at 1.043 \:D/ :pink: :pink: :pink: \:D/ :boff: Strange thing tho was had a very vigorous boil throughout the first 75 minutes and actually experienced my first boil over #-o What factors can cause that :?: I used US goldings for hops for the first time.

Excellent, glad it worked out for you 8)

As OB said I find turning my back on it induces a boil over :lol: I reckon from what you said you collected more wort in the boiler than usual so you had less head space, in future keep an eye on it and bat it down, turn the heat off for a few secs or have a jug of cold water handy just to quieten it down a bit. Well done =D>
Yes I'm sure you are spot on as usual, head space was about 4"-5" but it was frothing and thrashing like a wild thing :shock: Yesterdays brewday was nothing like that. That's a good tip re the cold water - will remember that.

Cheers

garwatts

Re: Where am I Going Wrong

Post by garwatts » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:37 pm

nobby wrote:One of the reason you SG is high after the boil is the Sugar. Also did you correct for Temp??

Also you LB to Grams conversions are incorrect

Crystal 1LB 11.7oz is 790Grams

Sugar 1LB 10oz is 735Grams

Pale Malt 8LB 8oz is 4.054Kgs
Yes I did correct for the temp, but the problem was lack of liquid :cry: I didn't notice the conversions being wrong just copied the recipe from Mr GW and used the metrics :)

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