Thin beer

[Scooby]

My last 3 or 4 brews have been a bit on the thin side, lacking in body and a full malty taste. This suits the light session type beer and have still been most enjoyable to drink just not what expected.

The FG’s are 1006 – 1010 using WLP002 that is a low attenuative yeast and WLP007, which is higher at 70-80%. I would expect these to be in the region of 1.010 –1.014

I aim to start the mash at just over 67c for approx 3 hrs, at the end the temp in the middle of the tun is about 65c but the temp on the peripheries is down to 61 – 62c

My first thoughts are that the initial temp promotes the production of dextrin but because of the temp drop towards the end of an extended (longer than the accepted 11/2 hr) mash more of that is converted to maltose than is ideal to produce the balance of sugars I am after.

I’m not sure this is the case, as I believe the temp for the conversions are 60 –65c for maltose and 64 – 68c for dextrin and my temps are within these parameters.

The mash pH is as near 5.3 as you can tell with litmus paper and I use 2.75 – 3l of water per Kg grain.

My next brew will be mashed for 11/2 hr to see if this makes any difference.

Your thoughts and ideas would be welcome

[steve_flack]

for approx 3 hrs,

IMO There's your problem. I mash for one hour although many people mash for 90 minutes.

[oblivious]

Mash time is only one component in making fermentable wort, but generally this is in comparison of a 60 min to a 90 min mash. Maybe the 3 hour mash is the cause of your low FG. Also a high water to grain ratio will promote more fermentable wort. One final thing do you add any sugar to your wort?

[Scooby]

Looks like the dog will have to make do with much less than his usual 2+hr walk on brew days

[Scooby]

One final thing do you add any sugar to your wort?

Only one of the 4 had sugar added and that was 90g molasses and 400g muscovado. About 11% of the fermentables.

[oblivious]

Only one of the 4 had sugar added and that was 90g molasses and 400g muscovado. About 11% of the fermentables.

That should not be a problem, triples have up to 20% of there fermentability made up of sugar

[prolix]

Wheeler says 2.5 hours is about your max if you want a thin beer or else you start to release the tannins and whatnots. and 1 hour for a full bodied beer, lots of dextrins

[tubby_shaw]

for approx 3 hrs,

IMO There's your problem. I mash for one hour although many people mash for 90 minutes.

I'm with Steve, I think that your mash is too long with your grist/liquor ratio.
I mash for 90 minute with 2 to 2.5 L/Kg and even my light beers have sufficient body.

[mysterio]

One final thing do you add any sugar to your wort?

Only one of the 4 had sugar added and that was 90g molasses and 400g muscovado. About 11% of the fermentables.

Like oblivious said that's not a problem, but sugars ferment about 99+% of the way so they add virtually no residual body. This is why some high gravity belgians are so light in body and not cloyingly sweet. I would perhaps cut down the sugar if you want more body, and mash for less time (also perhaps insulate your mash tun more).

[Scooby]

Thanks for all your input, it’s good to hear your opinions

I don’t think it’s a problem with additions of sugar as the same occurs in brews without.

I can’t see the temp loses is a problem as it is still within an acceptable range.

It’s a commonly held belief that thin mashes are beneficial to the production of maltose and thick the production of dextrin. Is 2.75 – 3.0l thin? I’m not sure, some people use 15l irrespective of the amount of grain. I’ve tried 2 –2.5l and found it unmanageable.

I think it would be wise to change only one thing in my next brew and as I feel that the longer mash is encouraging the conversion of dextrin to maltose cutting it to 1 or 11/2 hr would be the best modification

BTW what FG do you guys get with your brews ( The recent ones I'm talking about were SL, my own recipe similar to TTL, Gales HSB and Badger best.)

[moorsd]

My FG normally depends on what yeast I use

My last brew using Ringwood yeast fermented down to 1.008, but before that, using london strains, it was around 1.010 - 1.012

It's usually around 1.010 - 1.012 on average

[bitter_dave]

BTW what FG do you guys get with your brews ( The recent ones I'm talking about were SL, my own recipe similar to TTL, Gales HSB and Badger best.)

With Safale I tend to get 1010 on a 1040 beer (which includes up to 250g sugar); my TTL, which had an OG of about 1044, and went to 1011.

For some reason when I've used Harveys brewery yeast the beer has attenuated much more, and a pretty normal 1040 bitter went down to 1006 - this is a higher level of attenuation than the brewery get. Although pretty dry, I found this beer improved greatly over time. However, it puts me off using their yeast again.

[Scooby]

I've mashed for 3 hrs (3.5hrs also) for my last few brews and haven't noticed a difference although I do mash a few degrees hotter.

If you are getting high efficiencys i've been reading opinion that suggests that squeezing the last few points from your grains can make a brew seem thin. I'd try mashing hotter and stopping at a higher gravity if you find 3hr mashes convenient.

I do find longer mashes make for a more relaxed and enjoyable brew day

I'm in the low 80's for efficiency, not really pushed for that just seems to happen. Do you start you mash at 69c DaaB?

[Scooby]

BTW what FG do you guys get with your brews ( The recent ones I'm talking about were SL, my own recipe similar to TTL, Gales HSB and Badger best.)

With Safale I tend to get 1010 on a 1040 beer (which includes up to 250g sugar); my TTL, which had an OG of about 1044, and went to 1011.

For some reason when I've used Harveys brewery yeast the beer has attenuated much more, and a pretty normal 1040 bitter went down to 1006 - this is a higher level of attenuation than the brewery get. Although pretty dry, I found this beer improved greatly over time. However, it puts me off using their yeast again.

I'm sure my low FG beers would improve given time but you know how it is

[bitter_dave]

BTW what FG do you guys get with your brews ( The recent ones I'm talking about were SL, my own recipe similar to TTL, Gales HSB and Badger best.)

With Safale I tend to get 1010 on a 1040 beer (which includes up to 250g sugar); my TTL, which had an OG of about 1044, and went to 1011.

For some reason when I've used Harveys brewery yeast the beer has attenuated much more, and a pretty normal 1040 bitter went down to 1006 - this is a higher level of attenuation than the brewery get. Although pretty dry, I found this beer improved greatly over time. However, it puts me off using their yeast again.

I'm sure my low FG beers would improve given time but you know how it is