Marstons Old Empire Recipe help pls!

[EccentricDyslexic]

Not much out there recipe wise for this fab bottled ale. Having done a bit of research Ive come up with this-

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Recipe: Marstons Old Empire
Brewer: EccentricDyslexic
Style: English IPA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Boil Size: 30.11 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 10.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 56.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.20 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (5.9 EBC) Grain 100.00 %
66.00 gm Fuggles [3.90 %] (90 min) (FWH) Hops 25.3 IBU
33.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (90 min) (FWH) Hops 14.9 IBU
33.00 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (10 min) Hops 7.6 IBU
33.00 gm Fuggles [3.90 %] (10 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
33.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (10 min) Hops 4.6 IBU
66.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.60 %] (0 min) Hops -

I will use Brewlabs 2556 Burton 1 yeast for the sulphours notes as this defo has that Burton twang Mastons goes on about. I have used Cascade for bittering cus of the higher AAs and because Marstons say they use it, hopefuly it wont over power the Fuggles. I have chosen Fuggles over goldings as i can defo detect that grassy aroma(so can the OH ), but go easy on me will ya...I'm only a newbie

Any help greatfuly recieved to balance this brew!

Ta

Steve

EDITED: removed the black malt, bittering cascades(to keep OSB happy) and added fuggles for bittering(cus i have lots!)

[OldSpeckledBadger]

Marstons say they use Cascades for late hopping not for bittering so your hop schedule is clearly way off.

[EccentricDyslexic]

Not getting much help with this one chaps, if it'd help i can easily remove the cascades from the bittering hops list!

Pls help, this is a fab brew that really needs cloning!

Steve

[boingy]

Heheh, don't take too much notice of badger, our resident grumpy git, although he's right about what Marston's say:

"Old Empire is brewed using optic malt, a subtle and paler grain that will allow other flavours to come through on the palate. Goldings and Fuggle Hops are added to this brew, which is then late hopped with the American Cascade variety for extra hop strength."

Beyond that I can't help matey. I've only tasted it once. I categorised it as "OK".

[EccentricDyslexic]

Hi Boingy,

thanks for that, i had noticed that Marstons said its use of Cascades was for late hopping, so thats why they are there, i only added them as FWH also to bump up the IBUs keeping in mind that they wont contribute much flavour anyway in a 90 boil.

I urge you to give MOE another try, its just great atm imho! lol I have noticed variation from month to month in most comertial bottled brews ive been drinking, like Fursty Ferret, some months its dryer than other months, i wnet through a spell of really enjoying Abbot Ale, but the last time i had it it tasted nothing like i had enjoyed before! Its a good job the missus just picks up what evers takes her eye otherwise id just be drinking the same stuff!

Steve

PS Surely we cant always belive what these breweries tell us about their brew... they must want to throw us off with the occasional white lie? lol

[pantsmachine]

I don't normally do 'strong' posts but what's the point in recreating this pishwater? Got to be the blandest excuse for an IPA its ever been my misfortune to try. Feck, they even sell it in clear bottles! Old Empire my arse, search these here forums and you'll get recipes for real IPA's that will put a smile on your face. Don't do mine though, they're all crap but they're still better than Old Empire. Grumble grumble grumble.

[EliteEvil]

Old Empire is much easier to drink that US style pale ales and much hoppier and stronger flavoured than green king/wadworths style IPAs. I am as much of a beer snob as anyone and think it is a good pint, never had it on tap though.

[gr_baker]

Steve, I'd leave the black malt out too. IMHO an IPA shouldn't have anything other than Pale Malt in it. Especially one that's supposed to be modelled on an old style IPA. Have you thought about using Optic Pale Malt just as Marston's do?

If you're interested in IPA I can recommend Homebrew Classics India Pale Ale by Clive La Pensee and Roger Protz.

Russel.

[Dr. Dextrin]

I don't normally do 'strong' posts but what's the point in recreating this pishwater? Got to be the blandest excuse for an IPA its ever been my misfortune to try. Feck, they even sell it in clear bottles! Old Empire my arse, search these here forums and you'll get recipes for real IPA's that will put a smile on your face. Don't do mine though, they're all crap but they're still better than Old Empire. Grumble grumble grumble.

I must admit, I had it highly recommended by my brother-in-law - he even bought me a bottle - but I found it a bit disappointing too. Tasted a bit bland and "old" to me, like a beer you've kept too long. Maybe that's what it's meant to be like eh? (after it's been to India and back in a stinking hot ship).

[EccentricDyslexic]

Ok haved droped the black malt, i dont have any optic malt, so will use Golden Promise, im not so sure itd make a big difference, i cant really pick out the malt much, its all about the hops most defo! Any sugestions on the hops chaps?

steve

[pantsmachine]

Loads of pale malt, loads of EKG's. Depending on your boil time enought to get it to between 50 and 70 ibu's. That's the most basic skeleton for an IPA. After that the only limit is your imagination. I like other malts in with mine but that's a me thing. Ah nice pale IPA will surprise your mates. My ones look like lagers till you taste them(i carb to 2.2 to 2.4 vols).

Sort your bittering hops to the level you want and hit the copper with the rest in the last 5 to 10 minutes. Cascade give a nice citrus zing to the beer. If you are limited in the hop amounts you have you can make a nice wee schedule with what you have there.

[gr_baker]

It depends. Are you trying to recreate Old Empire or just make a nice IPA? Your original recipe (leaving out the Black malt of course) will make a nice IPA. How close it will be to Old Empire is hard to say. I think yours is a bit more bitter than the original (no bad thing). If you want some examples of real IPA's of old take a look at the Durden Park book, an online version of edition 2 is online here http://www.countybeermakers.org.uk/oldb ... 2-list.php You'll notice that there are no late hops in those recipes but they were often dry hopped

Russell.

[coatesg]

If you're interested in IPA I can recommend Homebrew Classics India Pale Ale by Clive La Pensee and Roger Protz.

Classic book - mostly the recipes are absolutely potty on the hops, best for those who can buy Goldings in bulk! Most have theoretical IBUs in the 200+ range - adding half a kilo of hops to a 5 gallon brew is not for the faint of heart (mostly, because your kettle then contains thick hop soup which is quite hard to cool, and is prone to retaining half your wort in the kettle...

[EccentricDyslexic]

Ok, have droped the black malt, bittering cascades and replaced them with fuggles to the same IBU. Also split the 10min flavor hops between the goldings, fuggles and cascade. I have stuck with the goldings for end of boil aroma hops.

Can anyone make a more experienced guess with the hop schedual? Or maybe this is a 'sup' it and see recipe?

Steve

[pantsmachine]

Looks good to me. Worst thing that will happen is you'll get a cracking pint that you might want to adjust!