Selling your brews!

[paulpod]

Hi there,

An opportunity has come up for me to sell my brews (once they get good enough!) in a small, independent wine shop.

I was just wondering if any of you guys have done a similar thing? and if so, how does one go about this?

What are the health and safter and tax/duty procedures?

Is it actually something one can do?

Cheers

Paul

[Uncle Joshua]

Would your brewing area need a safety certificate? also, you'd need to be VAT registered?

[Blackjack]

Yes you can very easily.
All you have to do is read Beer Notice 226 from HMRC and register using the form at the end, you will simply then have to conform to the law and regulations, keep the required records and pay duty, presumably at the small brewery rate every month to HMRC. If you are hard of thought and poor at accounting or record keeping you will struggle.

Others have done it and you can. If you do you will be able to say you are one of a very few British femto breweries and proud of it.
(A femto is something a thousand times smaller than a nano, and a million times smaller than a micro )

NO You would not need a saftey certificate and you most certainly would not need to register for VAT ( unless of course you turnover more than £73,000 per annum. )

[paulpod]

awesome thanks for that blackjack! i was hoping it would be pretty straightforward!

[Beer O'Clock]

awesome thanks for that blackjack! i was hoping it would be pretty straightforward!

Assuming the information you receive on an anonymous forum is accurate. While the info may be well meaning, it's on your head if it's not correct.
Do more research with the relevent authorities, is my response.

No offense Blackjack.

[coatesg]

Note: If you register a premise as a brewery to sell beer, you must pay duty on **all** beer produced in that brewery (including homebrew for yourself).

I would be surprised if, as a food producing premise, you do not need to register with environmental health (and thus be liable to inspections and their requirements such as fully washable floors, food safety certification, environmental and building considerations, etc). If you intend to bottle the brew and sell it, there might also be some requirement to deal with your local trading standards. There may also be things like declaring income for income tax, and also getting permission to dispose of effluent down the water company's drains...

If you do not already have the experience to consistently produce good quality beer, then I would certainly not jump into making beer for commercial sale. Not to be said that it can't be done, but it's a lot of work for little (if any) return, especially for a single small outlet.

No offence either Blackjack, but I believe there is more to it than filling out one form and a monthly return...

[Scooby]

Plus.....


You should register with the local authority as a brewery, but if don't tell them, they will find you eventually and will arrange to visit you.
You must keep records on all beer produced, you will also need to keep a malt record and all calculations regarding alcohol content.
You must keep accounts including all sales and purchases and keep all receipts which need to be cross referenced against you malt records. Invoices must record all sales and who they went to and receipts who you bought an item from.
You will need to get your beer checked once a year by an independent source ie;  another brewery who have lab facilities, which will cost approx £10+ for each type of beer you produce
You will need to buy proper measuring kit to measure the alcohol content which needs to have a certificate of conformity - cost approx £200+

[paulpod]

awesome thanks for that blackjack! i was hoping it would be pretty straightforward!

Assuming the information you receive on an anonymous forum is accurate. While the info may be well meaning, it's on your head if it's not correct.
Do more research with the relevent authorities, is my response.

good point. amazing how credulous you can be when you hear what you want to hear

[boingy]

Buy this book and read it from cover to cover at least twice:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microbrewers-Ha ... 0956268161

It'll be the best seven quid you ever spend.

[Big G]

Making the beer is the easy part!

It CAN be done, like anything else! That book is a very good read!

If you register a premise as a brewery to sell beer, you must pay duty on **all** beer produced in that brewery (including homebrew for yourself).

I thought you only paid duty on sold beer, moving it off your premises or being consumed on your premises? Why would you pay duty on an unsold product that has not been consumed?

[coatesg]

It's not the selling of beer that counts, it's packaging, moving off the brewery in bulk, consuming or when sufficiently mature to be drink. (7.2 of beer notice). If you make beer, and consume it yourself, it is still liable for duty as it comes under one of the definitions above and it's produced on a registered premise. If you brewed it elsewhere with separate stock for yourself only, then that's fine I believe.

This topic comes up time and time again - it would be useful to get some of the pro brewers on here to contribute to a definitive FAQ item?

[Big G]

If you brewed it elsewhere with separate stock for yourself only, then that's fine I believe.

Move it back to under the stairs then an he should be fine

[gregorach]

Buy this book and read it from cover to cover at least twice:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microbrewers-Ha ... 0956268161

It'll be the best seven quid you ever spend.

+1 to that. Absolutely essential reading if you're thinking about this sort of thing.

[critch]

Plus.....


You should register with the local authority as a brewery, but if don't tell them, they will find you eventually and will arrange to visit you.
You must keep records on all beer produced, you will also need to keep a malt record and all calculations regarding alcohol content.
You must keep accounts including all sales and purchases and keep all receipts which need to be cross referenced against you malt records. Invoices must record all sales and who they went to and receipts who you bought an item from.
You will need to get your beer checked once a year by an independent source ie;  another brewery who have lab facilities, which will cost approx £10+ for each type of beer you produce
You will need to buy proper measuring kit to measure the alcohol content which needs to have a certificate of conformity - cost approx £200+

indeed you have to register with the local authority and indeed you have to keep records of malt bought/beer sold/ beer destroyed, doesnt have to be cross referenced and theyre not really interested in who youve sold it to (we always keep a record just incase the hmrc decide they are interested)as long as the duties paid on time theyre happy


you do not need to have your beer yearly checked and you do not need to buy some overpriced kit to tell you how much alcohol youve got in your beer.you will need approved hydrometers and accurate record keeping

there was a cracking ten gallon commercial in chester whos just had to close down due to the guy losing his it job and the income from the brewer would have buggered up his benefits. real shame as his beers were(are) great(*edit* guys got a new job but it takes up so much of his time he cant brew any more )

read ted brunnings microbrewers handbook available from amazon for a few quid ,its got all the(accurate) information you need

and grahams right ALL beer should be declared

mind you if you keep your own personal away from the salable stock whos to know

[Scooby]

you do not need to have your beer yearly checked and you do not need to buy some overpriced kit to tell you how much alcohol youve got in your beer.you will need approved hydrometers and accurate record keeping

It is a requirement that one of each of the beers produced is checked for abv once a year. HMRC can test your beer at any time by taking a sample at a pub or from a bottle, if it was found to be above the limits set down, back tax would be payable, that's one good reason to know what, how much and to whom you sold and be able to cross reference that to your malt records.

Tell me, what is a hydrometer if not proper measuring kit to measure the alcohol content. you need 2 hydrometers to cover a range of beers and a spare of each is a necessity. At over £50 each that's £200+ Who mentioned over priced kit?

read ted brunnings microbrewers handbook available from amazon for a few quid ,its got all the(accurate) information you need

Sounds like it needs a revision.