Wheeler V Beersmith Hop Calculation

[Wez]

I've recently noticed a large difference between the calculations for EBU's in Wheeler & Protz BYORAAH and the figure coming back from Beersmith for example the recipie for Exmoor Gold in the book gives an EBU of 32 putting the same values into Beersmith gives an EBU of 51.8. This leaves me with a problem for when i brew on Sunday do I go with Wheelers calculations and risk over hopping or Beersmith and risk under hopping what would you do?

34g Fuggles (full boil) AA 4.5
28g Challenger (full boil) AA 7.7
20g Goldings (full boil) AA 5.3
20g Goldings (last 15) AA 5.3

[Wez]

'it' won't let me add another option...

[mysterio]

I voted Beersmith which uses the 'Tinseth' formula by default. Seems to work for me. Not saying Wheeler is wrong or anything, I've just never used his calculations and Tinseth is what i'm used to. The thing I don't like about Tinseth is that it gives you zero IBUs for hops that are steeped after the boil which isn't true in my experience. So, I usually put my steeped hops in Beersmith for 2 - 5 minutes to compensate.

I think ProMash uses the Rager formula by default... ?

Just as a sidenote, IBU calculations gave me a big headache when I started all-grain brewing - the best tip I can give is to pick one formula and stick with it, adjusting the IBUs to your taste.

[steve_flack]

BeerAlchemy uses Tinseth by default but you can also choose Rager, Daniels or Garetz as well.

[mysterio]

As if three weeks worth of plugs on BBR wasn't enough

[steve_flack]

Three weeks? I thought I only got two!

[mysterio]

I think you were mentioned on the batch sparging, IPA and brewing software podcasts.

[Scooby]

I use SF's BeerAlchemy set to Garetz formula.

Beersmith is pc only so voted Wheeler

Now you have changed it I'll vote BeerAlchemy

[steve_flack]

Oh, OK....the brewing software show mention was a bit brief. The 'Big Guys' got much longer. Fair enough...they're on Windows....95% of the market and all that.

BTW, how do I change my vote?

[Wez]

Cheers for adding the extras DaaB.

[Vossy1]

All too complicated for me

I think we need a DaaB option

He answers most of my questions...amoungst other fab forum members

[bitter_dave]

Normally I just use the wheeler equation, but that looks like a lot of copper hops to me, if you assume the AAUs of the hops are those given by wheeler.

I'm pretty sure wheeler meant to put 40 IBUs in the book - that's the gravity listed in my (1997) edition of the book, and in the real ale almanac.

If you get a chance try bittering the recipe to 40 IBUs in Beersmith, and post the results here - I'm interested to see what the recipe looks like.

[Scooby]

Normally I just use the wheeler equation, but that looks like a lot of copper hops to me, if you assume the AAUs of the hops are those given by wheeler.

I'm pretty sure wheeler meant to put 40 IBUs in the book - that's the gravity listed in my (1997) edition of the book, and in the real ale almanac.

If you get a chance try bittering the recipe to 40 IBUs in Beersmith, and post the results here - I'm interested to see what the recipe looks like.

I put Wheelers hop schedule (Challenger 50g, Fuggles 21g full boil, 10g each Fuggles and Golding 15min) in BA and got the following EBU:

Tinseth 55 EBU
Daniels 58 EBU
Rager 62 EBU
Garetz 46 EBU

As you say BD Wheeler states 40 EBU.

Using his formula: (Wt of hops x AA x 20) / vol brewed x 10

Challenger 33.48 EBU
Fuggles 8.22 EBU
Total 41.7 EBU
He only calculates Bittering hops added at the start of boil so if you omit the late hops in BA you get the following:

Tinseth 51 EBU
Daniels 53 EBU
Rager 59 EBU
Garetz 45 EBU


This is one of the reasons I use Garetz

[SteveD]

It's all b0llox Use any calc you like because unless you have a-acid measuring equipment, you actually have no idea how bitter your hops really are, even if the harvest alpha is printed on the pack. How were they handled and processed? How old are they? How were they stored, and what did you do to them yourself? Then......what is your actual utilisation? 20%, 25%, 30%? I haven't a clue!

I feel that all these variables will have far greater effect on bitterness than wether you use one calc or another. I use Wheeler - simply because I know the formula - to get into the right bitterness ballpark then subsequently tweak to suit palate if necessary, but it ususally isn't.

[steve_flack]

If you really want to find out if your chosen formula is reflecting what you're actually getting in your beers then Brewlabs offer one-off analysis services for beer. A single bitterness determination costs £16.50 (+VAT?). A full package of four analyses (Bitterness, Colour, ABV and pH) costs £35 (+VAT).

http://www.brewlab.co.uk/pdf/onebestway ... 07_web.pdf

I seem to recall that they give a discount to CBA members. I could be mistaken though.