Brewday 6th June - BSB

[SteveD]

Yesterday's Brewage..

BSB (Bog Standard Bitter)

6.35kg Maris Otter Pale Malt
120g Crystal Malt - darkish

106g Fuggles - full boil 90 mins a-acid unknown
23g Fuggles - 23 mins a-acid unknown
56g Goldings - 1 min 4.5% a-acid (irrelevant!)
20g Goldings - dry hop

Protofloc at 15 mins

33g Nottingham started as per pack instructions

OG 1059 in 24.2L = 74% Brewhouse efficiency

25ml CRS in 52L liquor to about ph6. 9g DLS in grist gave mash ph of 5.2. with 16L mash liquor. Mash 1hr 50 mins 66.5c at start to 65c at end. All fairly standard to this point. Sparge liquor treated in meantime with 2.5ml lactic acid, brought ph down to low 5's.

Then, for me, something new. Proper batch sparging. Using the formula posted here recently (Palmer's) I gave it a go. My plan was to under extract to give a beer of OG1050ish in 25L post boil (about 65% ext efficiency). I reckoned on OG 1036 in 36L preboil needed, given the 'aggressive' temperament of my boiler

Using the formula, I ran 9.5L into the mash, stirred it, waited 5 mins, recirulated about 5L, it ran clear from then until the mash bed ran dry, collecting exactly 18L in the bolier. Another 18L liquor ran onto the mash, stirred, 5 minute wait, recirculate, and run off clear. Second runnings at G1024. I stopped at 35.2L as I'd taked the gravity in the boiler and found it to be a shade over 1046 giving an extraction efficiency of 83-84% using batch sparging. Good, but not what I wanted!

Sparge liquor at 85-86c gave 73-75c in the mash bed. Fine.

I boiled gently down to 27.5 L by switching off the second element for parts of the boil, and finished with 24L or so in the FV No hop sparging.

I guess I could have chucked some wort away and diluted it down to 1050
which was the thinking behind the 23G late-ish addition of Fuggles, but I changed my mind.

Aeration was with a 2 min blast of O2 through a 2 micron S/S stone, plus it would have got a bit during cooling as I recirculated the wort over the I/C to speed things up.

FV into the boiler with a water jacket as pictured below. My cold water supply is at about 17.5c at the moment so the jacket is being cooled by rotating pet bottles of frozen water as shown below. One in the freezer, one in the boiler. Boiler temp about 17.9. Ambient about 22c

Another new thing for me - using an airlocked wine fermenter as a primary, fitted with a blow off tube. Too many fruit flies and other insects about to risk an open bucket.



Fermentation is underway but not any more vigorous than usual.

Bog standard bitter? 1059? Well, it would have been, 100 years ago. Shame, that.

I'm coming to the conclusion that to deliberately under-extract from a larger grist than required is very difficult if you want a full brewlength after the boil - you just get too much extract. The only ways I can see are to really rush the extraction - unpredictable results? Or, extract a much smaller volume preboil and resign to topping up substantially. Ah well.

Batch sparging is a doddle.

Cheers,

Steve

[Andy]

I'm coming to the conclusion that to deliberately under-extract from a larger grist than required is very difficult if you want a full brewlength after the boil - you just get too much extract. The only ways I can see are to really rush the extraction - unpredictable results? Or, extract a much smaller volume preboil and resign to topping up substantially. Ah well.

I was coming to the same conclusion i.e. that if you stop the sparge early then you'll have to top-up your fermenter with water to reach final volume.

[Vossy1]

Very informative SD

[steve_flack]

Hey...I brewed a beer a month or so ago called the exact same name - I guess I was hardly original at the time though Although it finished a bit high it actually turned out rather nice.

[Seveneer]

I was coming to the same conclusion i.e. that if you stop the sparge early then you'll have to top-up your fermenter with water to reach final volume.

I monitor the gravity and volume in the copper as I run it from the mash tun then use Promash to calculate the gravity at the required volume/dilution.

I then stop when I have enough sugars rather than enough volume of wort. This way it's easy to stop the sparge early and hence "under-extract".

This also means that I can top up before the boil so all the wort is sterilised before fermentation.

/Phil.

[Andy]

Not sure I completely follow that Phil - can you give some (made up) numbers as an example ? (when you've got the time of course )

[Seveneer]

OK, while running the wort into the copper I might be aiming for 10 gallons at 1.050 post boil or 11 gallons at 1.045 pre boil (the numbers are made up arbitrarily and will not necessarily work out correctly).

As I'm sparging I would do a frequent spot check of what I have in the copper (gravity and volume) and see that I have collected maybe 8 gallons of 1.065 (or whatever the figure would be) and calulate that by diluting this to 10 gallons I'd drop the gravity to my desired 1.050.

At that point I would know that whatever the volume in the copper the amount of sugar collected is correct and would then stop sparging. I'd then add enough water to compensate for the forthcoming boil.

If my spot check showed that I had too little sugar I'd continue sparging and if I had too much I'd end up with more wort at the correct gravity post boil.

The thing to remember is that you are only really interested in the amount of sugar you extract rather than the volume of wort. You can adjust the volume of wort by boiling or by adding water.

I know this isn't too clear but I'll throw in some actual figures later when I have promash to hand.

/Phil.

[Seveneer]

I'm coming to the conclusion that to deliberately under-extract from a larger grist than required is very difficult if you want a full brewlength after the boil - you just get too much extract. The only ways I can see are to really rush the extraction - unpredictable results? Or, extract a much smaller volume preboil and resign to topping up substantially. Ah well.

I was coming to the same conclusion i.e. that if you stop the sparge early then you'll have to top-up your fermenter with water to reach final volume.

Surely, (if you are referring fly sparging at least) the whole point of stopping short is to discard the tail end of the runnings as this contains all the crap, topping up with water goes as read, the benefit being that the water doesn't contain the stuff that reduces the final quality of the beer.

Agreed. But, to take it a step further, surely it's better to top up before the boil than after, hence my post above.

[Seveneer]

yes, I am confused myself, permanently. I'll try and simplify it....

I just use the promash dilution tool to calculate the predicted gravity at the required post boil volume given the gravity and volume in the copper at any point in time during the sparge.

I stop sparging when I can calculate that there's enough sugar in the copper to allow me to top up to 10 gallons and still give my required gravity.

Then I add the top up water plus an extra gallon or so to cover boil off.

This way I am garenteed to hit my required gravity and volume every time with the added bonus that the entire brew length has been boiled for the entire boil time.

Obviously, if I aim for efficiency of 60% I end up stopping sparging at around 1.020 thus leaving all end runnings with the non-desirables still in the mash tun.

Any better?

/Phil.

[Seveneer]

Yes!

The efficiency figure was arbitrary and not what I actually use. I'd aim for more like 70% to ensure I get enough sugar for a brew without going anywhere near single figure gravity runoff.

Boiloff figure is (to a degree) a funtion of your system. I tend to boil off a gallon or so in an hour. If it's looking like I'm going to have more wort (at a lower gravity) than I want I'll boil more vigorously for the last 15 minutes. If I think I'm boiling off too much I will add water along the way.

/Phil.

[SteveD]

All this isn't new to me. All I was saying that to be deliberately inefficient with a larger grain bill, you have to top up with water - you can't boil down to your brewlength. I was hoping that my extraction itself would be inefficient enough...I was none too careful, but it wasn't!

Still, it was fun to try batch sparging. Quite relaxing because you don't have to be careful with anything! Just slosh the liquor into the mash and mix it up. Make a cup of tea, then run it it into the boiler as fast as it will go while drinking your cuppa. Put your cup down, run the second lot in as fast as it will go, and repeat.....apart from the tea making bit. Job done.

The batch sparge volume calculations worked spot on. PH will never rise, with the HLT at 85c the grain bed is hot enough, and as the second runnings are still in the reasonable range -1012 upwards, there's no risk of over extraction. I don't know why I didn't try it sooner.

[Seveneer]

Not sure I follow Steve.

You wrote...

I'm coming to the conclusion that to deliberately under-extract from a larger grist than required is very difficult if you want a full brewlength after the boil

I'm saying that it's very easy. You just do the calculations I suggested then turn off the tap at the mash tun when you've collected enough sugar.

Maybe I'm missing something.

/Phil.

[SteveD]

Not sure I follow Steve.

You wrote...

I'm coming to the conclusion that to deliberately under-extract from a larger grist than required is very difficult if you want a full brewlength after the boil

I'm saying that it's very easy. You just do the calculations I suggested then turn off the tap at the mash tun when you've collected enough sugar.

Maybe I'm missing something.

/Phil.

No, not as such. I know exactly what you mean and I know how to do those volume/gravity/evaporation/top up calcs All I was saying is that it's hard to deliberately under extract without topping up, wether in the boiler or the FV. (That's what I meant by full brewlength after the boil) I'm trying to find a way of inefficient extraction to give the final brewlength without topping up, rather than 'efficiently' extracting just what's required in the form of a stronger first run, and then topping up with water - that would be too easy!!

...or am I talking bollocks! It has been known

I was just struck by the chap who brewed very crudely but made great beer, as talked about by Ray Ashworth.

[Seveneer]

I understand now Mate.

I'd have thought that the way forward would be to extract a good quality strong wort stopping gravity at 1.015-1.020 then top up before boiling. Wouldn't this give a better quality of wort than looking to mash inefficiently?

Someone gave a presentation at our last club meeting, last week, and explained how, by improving mash technique, you could improve your efficiency. Therefore, I would have thought, to mash inefficiently involves using a poor technique. I just wish I could remember the guy's name....

/Phil.

[Andy]