Cooked Yeast?

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renoufthefrog

Cooked Yeast?

Post by renoufthefrog » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:29 pm

I had a first run of my new brewery attempting a Black Sheep "Riggwelter" clone recipe. All went well until I pitched my White labs British ale yeast (WLP005) at what I thought was OK at 28C which I now know is too high :oops: (got wrong advice and also distracted by the missus, no not that....if only!!) only to see the temperature carry on rising until it reached 39C. I was well pi**ed off as I tried so hard to do everything right. Well it has been three days now and I cant spot any obvious fermentation activity, I took a specific gravity reading just to check and it seems that I have gone from an OG of 1062 to 1050 so I guess that proves that something is happening however small. My question is, do I add more yeast or see if things pick up? I know that it is a lesson learnt, however I will be pretty unhappy if I have failed at the first hurdle. Just for the record, I have a temperature controlled fridge that maintains the wort at between 20C and 21C and it has been kept at this temperature for the whole time after the initial cooing down. Any advice would be most welcome, cheers

BrewBoyJoe

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by BrewBoyJoe » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:40 pm

I've just made a Ridley's Old Bob clone and it's in the fermenter right now with WLP005 so have read up on this yeast a bit! I am maintaining the temp using an aquarium heater (£7.95) in a plastic tub filled with water, and the fermenter sat inside! Seems to work well! Maintaining at about 18 deg c should be fine for this yeast!

Can you see any yeast on the bottom? Maybe it's flocculated. Is there a layer on the bottom? Maybe you can rouse this up into activity again by stiring slowly with a sanitised spoon! Although maybe you killed it! At any point did you see a creamy head on the beer showing the yeast was working? Maybe you need to pitch more yeast and aerate again? Perhaps you have a sachet of dried yeast handy like sf-04 or something? I guess it'd take few days to get more WLP005 delivered. Although if you're near harrow I'd be happy to give you some fresh yeast out of the top of my fermenters!

BrewBoyJoe

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by BrewBoyJoe » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:20 pm

I'd be interested to see how you get on with the black Sheep supposing the yeast activity returns! I find this an excellent pint on draught in the pub! I was fortunate enough to holiday in Yorkshire last year :-) where I tasted a couple of pints here and there!

But in the bottle, I've always found it quite bland and without the same creamy citrussy hoppy delicious taste! I guess it's brewed perhaps 1% and a bit ABV higher... But whatever else they've done to it, who can say! It's just no where near as good as the pub ale!

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by Dave S » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:47 pm

BrewBoyJoe wrote:I'd be interested to see how you get on with the black Sheep supposing the yeast activity returns! I find this an excellent pint on draught in the pub! I was fortunate enough to holiday in Yorkshire last year :-) where I tasted a couple of pints here and there!

But in the bottle, I've always found it quite bland and without the same creamy citrussy hoppy delicious taste! I guess it's brewed perhaps 1% and a bit ABV higher... But whatever else they've done to it, who can say! It's just no where near as good as the pub ale!
I'm afraid I find that with most bottled beers, at least pales and bitters anyway. They just don't seem to come near to their draught counterparts. Maybe it's the difference with the carbonation that does it.
Best wishes

Dave

renoufthefrog

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by renoufthefrog » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:35 pm

Hello chaps.

Thanks for your quick replies, I have had no visible signs of life in the fermenter, dead as a dodo's donger. I feel like a mass murderer :evil: Anyhow, I have made the decision to pitch another WLP005 as The Malt Miller is local to me. Just the look and smell of that wort is making my mouth water like a Kiwi in a room full of three legged sheep.

Will keep you posted, in the meantime the recipe I used for the Riggwelter was as follows:

25 litre batch OG 1056 ABV5.9% 60 units of colour 39 EBU

MARIS OTTER PALE MALT 4553 gms
CRYSTAL MALT 365 gms
CHOCOLATE MALT 600 gms
TORRIFIED WHEAT 544 gms
ROAST BARLEY 1gm

HOPS Boil time 90 minutes.

FUGGLES 26 gms
PROGRESS 27 gms
CHALLENGER 27 gms
Add 10 gms GOLDINGS last fifteen minutes.

White labs British ale yeast, WLP005

Cheers

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by guypettigrew » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:03 pm

renoufthefrog wrote: All went well until I pitched my White labs British ale yeast (WLP005) at what I thought was OK at 28C which I now know is too high :oops: (got wrong advice and also distracted by the missus, no not that....if only!!) only to see the temperature carry on rising until it reached 39C.
How on earth did that happen?!

39C is incredibly hot. Did you have a heater in the FV?

Guy

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by lord groan » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:13 am

Yup I reckon you've cooked that yeast, the drop in gravity will more than likely be down to the reduction in temperature from 39c to 20c not because any fermentation is happening, I think you're doing the right thing by repitching fresh yeast. good luck!
lg

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by jaroporter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:00 am

the drop in gravity will more than likely be down to the reduction in temperature from 39c to 20c
hydrometer correction is hardly an exact science, but with a drop in temperature you'd expect the hydrometer reading to actually increase (all other things equal) and not fall by such a margin..
dazzled, doused in gin..

jonnyt

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by jonnyt » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:45 am

I think this has got probable infection written all over it given the lag.

I might have risked a cheap dried yeast but not £6 plus for one thats likely to be money down the drain

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by lord groan » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:11 pm

but with a drop in temperature you'd expect the hydrometer reading to actually increase

Oops! :oops: much embarrasment, thanks for that correction jaroporter - got my thoughts completely reversed there, yes it will go up. Please ignore my stupidity everyone
Thanks
lg

renoufthefrog

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by renoufthefrog » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:20 am

Hi All,

I have decided to give one last effort to save this brew despite the lag now in its 4th day of inactivity, and I have arranged with the Malt Miller to send a fresh batch of WLP005 tomorrow. Hopefully the wort is not infected as I was meticulous with my hygiene (pity I wasn't as vigilant about my temperatures!!). I haven't got the heart to bin my first brew without a fight, have heard all sorts of stories about recovering a bad situation like mine. As for using a £6 liquid yeast, I am still going to use it just in case it manages to recover. If it dies and all goes bad, an expensive lesson but one I won't repeat that's for sure. Thanks for all your posts, will let you know in a few days how things went......cheers.

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by jaroporter » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:26 am

hope it all goes alright for you! if you want an insurance policy on that new yeast, put a tiny bit of it into a small starter (100ml water, 10G DME) then grow it for your second batch.. ?

of course if all goes well with the first then you got a nice big yeastcake for the second anyways..
dazzled, doused in gin..

renoufthefrog

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by renoufthefrog » Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:37 am

Thanks for the tip jaroporter, have done just that! Pitched the new yeast last night at 21C so I am full of anticipation that this will work.

renoufthefrog

Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by renoufthefrog » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:32 am

Next chapter of the cooked yeast saga.....SUCCESS!! Went out this morning to have my customary peek at my lifeless fermenter and hey presto, a foaming maelstrom of yeasty rambunctiousness. I rushed inside to get my camera and took plenty of shots for posterity, alas can't seem to find anywhere to upload them on this site.

Now, my wife thinks I am a bit nutty at the best of times and can't for the life of her figure out how a grown man can get whipped-up into a frenzy by the sight of a plastic bucket full of "brown foamy stuff". I guess I must either be: (a) losing the plot or (b) enjoying what man was born for.

Lessons I learnt from my first ever brew attempt:

1. Don't rush things, leave plenty of time to get all operations done without panic. My first brew day had to be condensed into 5 hours from start to finish which was tight and I made silly mistakes
2. Watch temperatures very closely, i.e. don't take your eye off of them until you are sure of the readings especially the mashing temp and wort temp prior to pitching
3. Don't drop your hydrometer into your glass sampling tube as it tends to smash the bottom out!!!!
4. Clean up ASAP, wort can turn into a sticky mess (hence giving yourself plenty of time)

Cheers, and thanks for all the advice and encouragement. Just hope the end result was worth it and that my second brew will be less stressful

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Re: Cooked Yeast?

Post by Horden Hillbilly » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:50 am

renoufthefrog wrote: I rushed inside to get my camera and took plenty of shots for posterity, alas can't seem to find anywhere to upload them on this site.
For a "how to", click here.

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