re defining small beer

[timbo41]

Hope this doesn't sound too weird even by my standards!
Previous posts have mentioned my issues with after boil run off
Lets just say my hop stoppers are still a work on progress
So..what if I ran off a main beer from burco via original tap to fv 1
That's about 20 litres to tap level..fine by me
Then,add an additional gallon or so to remaining
wort,perhaps with some aromatics,steeping grains
maybe even some low alphas.
reheat,steep then use silicon tube to siphon as much as possible to demijohn. Would I make a small limited batch with a different profile?
I feel it might be a way to explore new.tastes, although probably difficult to.replicate
Stupid idea?

[Nigel1969]

Anythings worth a try. This brewing lark is very subjective anyway. Experimenting is the way to go.

[darkonnis]

Sounds like fun, and mostly untested, I reckon you should do it!

[seymour]

Hope this doesn't sound too weird even by my standards!
Previous posts have mentioned my issues with after boil run off
Lets just say my hop stoppers are still a work on progress
So..what if I ran off a main beer from burco via original tap to fv 1
That's about 20 litres to tap level..fine by me
Then,add an additional gallon or so to remaining
wort,perhaps with some aromatics,steeping grains
maybe even some low alphas.
reheat,steep then use silicon tube to siphon as much as possible to demijohn. Would I make a small limited batch with a different profile?
I feel it might be a way to explore new.tastes, although probably difficult to.replicate
Stupid idea?

I'm struggling with some of your terminology, so I'll try to repeat it back to make sure I understand the question.

When you say "issues with boil run off" are you saying, after your boil, you transfer the wort to your fermentor, but your hop stoppers cause much liquid to be left behind?

Do you use a chiller, and if so, do you immerse it in the boiler or the fermentor?

Then, "Burco" is your boil kettle, right? So, you're thinking of adding more water and grain and hops, heating but not boiling, then running it off to a second fermentor? That might give you something interesting, like a turbid, ancient Finnish Sahti or Berliner Weiss type table beer, but it'll be mushy and watered-down and weak. You know I do this kind of weird stuff all the time, but obviously most drinkers won't consider it a familiar, tasty beer.

The problems I forsee here are: it's not a real mash, so you're not extracting much more fermentable sugars from the grain, and it's not a real boil, so you're not extracting much more bitterness from the hops, and there won't be a "hot break" so there will be more trub than ever to clog up your works, and it won't be sterlized, so it will spoil very quickly. But don't just boil this all again, because you'll get nasty tannins from the grains. Also--and forgive me if I'm missing something obvious--but if your system left lots of liquid behind the first time, and you haven't done anything to fix the problem, why wouldn't it leave just as much behind the second time, thus simply wasting more perfectly good ingredients? Alternatively, you could add some dry malt extract and bring to a boil again, but you're no longer all-grain brewing, and where do you draw the line? At what point do stop fiddling with an inefficient system, "throwing good money after bad", as they say?

Maybe your first priority should be addressing the main cause of your "equipment loss problem." If your hop stoppers are to blame, what would it take to fix it? If the problem is too many aroma hops added at the very end, perhaps you could use them as dry hops in the fermentor, or place them in a "hop back/randallizer" to rack-through into the fermentor instead. If you don't chill, perhaps you should start, because that causes "cold-break" forcing most of the trub to drop below the tap. Perhaps you could avoid the tap altogether, and simply rack the liquid out over the top, or physically lift your boiler and pour the wort through a big strainer into the fermentor...

I commend your creative problem solving thoughts, and never want to discourage a homebrewer from trying something new. There are some sound methods for splitting batches and milking the most out of a single brew process, but I'm not sure this is a one of them.

Here's your homework assignment, some required reading. Don't worry, most of this goes over my head too, but it should give you some "action-able ideas":

Overview of Parti-gyle brewing:
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/l ... osher.html

A closer look at Fuller's historic parti-gyle process, for homebrewers:
http://www.byo.com/component/k2/item/23 ... -of-london

Ron Pattinson has some excellent parti-gyle explanations and recipes on his Shut Up About Barclay Perkins blog as well.

[timbo41]

Elegant and succinct. The reading even before I look at the reference material raises previously unthought if points! All valid. Will take some time to digest. My thanks. I feel my knowledge base will be greatly expanded

[seymour]

Cheers to that! Keep us posted on your action items.

[timbo41]

To be honest the issue I've had is getting a flow whilst racking from boiler to fv after chilling...as in no flow! ! Tried copper manifold, push fittings, Johnson guest plastic fittings ...getting a bit pissed off. Last two batches had to jug wort out leaving a load in. Don't know what I'm doing wrong but thought hey..if that's what I have to do will try to reuse wastage!!

[seymour]

If that's all, then use an immersion chiller in the boil kettle. Place it in the boil with 15 minutes remaining, in order to sanitize. After the boil, replace the lid and allow any last hops to steep however long you like, then turn-on the water to begin rapid chilling. Combining the effects of "hot break" and now a "cold break" most trub will fall out of suspension, so in 20-30 minutes, might allow you to drain using the tap. But if not, no big deal, once the wort is chilled it's safe to siphon-out using plain old tubing (no more garden hoses, though, c'mon!) I swear by these Fermtech Auto-Siphon racking devices. A couple easy pumps and it's off and running, without risking infection from mouth suction, etc.



Or, as I said, once it's cool to the touch, you could simply lift and pour the entire boiler through a large metal strainer into your fermentor bucket. I got one of these really cheap at Aldi. Another added benefit of this method is the aeration which occurs going through the metal mesh, which aids the yeast.

[Martin G]

I had some problems with draining the boiler as well, think I was draining too fast. Over doing copper finings also seem to be an often quoted reason. I started using grain/hop bags and am really pleased, considering making a basket out of stainless, personally like the options a removable filter gives.

[timbo41]

Yes! Parti gyle. I realise now in my own clumsy way that's what I was trying to describe with small differences.
first,a way of doing it without the multiple sparges,as I do full volume biab in the kettle( burco)
And I then mash out at a higher temperature. Then I add any bag drainings to main boil
I CA normally get 20 liters.out after immersion chilling .
I just want to utilize whole volume.So I though liquor it back, raise temp to steeping temps,add maybe eg. Caragold and a different hop ie styrian as a taste/ aroma addition to what was there anyway
Maybe even some dry malt extract to bring abv up a nit,although would probably do a short boil then as well.
Then rack off as much as possible to make a new smaller batch hence redefining small beer

[wilsoa11111]

yep that be partigyle, worked nicely when i did it, but getting a big enough difference in abv was my problem got 6.6% and 5%- not the 8% and 3.5% i wanted but worked quite well, ur way u will defo get a difference but be careful not to get too many tannins leached out... also ive heard small beers are the trickiest to get good, too little margin for error and no abv to hide behind

[super_simian]

True parti-gyling is a bit tricker than that, as it involves making different gravity worts and blending them pre-fermentation to varying ratios. What you're talking about is essentially "combined grist" brewing, and could work BUT won't you just run into the same draining issue with the second beer?

[timbo41]

New manifold being soldered up as we speak...here's hoping!!

[timbo41]

Would anyone like to come up with a method of calculating ibu for this type of approach? Figuring top end utilization at around 30% for first boil,dropping for later addition. . But then a shorter second boil maybe 20 mins just to incorporate dme and get some action from the extra hopping