Persistent infection nightmare

[Bazz]

Best of luck, are you brewing today?

[Piscator]

Hi David - fingers and toes crossed for you.

Another thought - have you considered making a kit to see if that is okay or also affected... it would let you rule out the boiler tap for certain if a kit was unaffected?
If you made a kit that was affected you would know for sure it was something associated with the fermenter or cleaning/handling then

Anyway - best of luck, hope this one will be a good 'un

Cheers
Steve

[simple one]

Do you rinse the FV once sanitised? If so what with?

[Jocky]

Brewed up. Tap replaced, steamed bucket. Cat food been moved for several weeks. See what happens.

Good luck!

[minesapint]

I am not overly impressed with Starsan.
I didn't brew for about two months this summer. I thought it would be a bit too hot for fermenting. Later when I opened my two King Kegs and fermenting tubs, one keg and tub were spotlessly clean. The other keg and fermenter had black mould growing in them.

The clean items had been washed out after the last brews and after swirling around had about an inch of strong sodium metabisulphate solution left in them.
The gas given off by the sodium met kept everything perfectly clean.

The keg and fermenter that had been cleaned and an inch of diluted Starsan left in the bottom were clean up to the top of the Starsan fluid level but black mould above the water line. Starsan had been swirled around to cover the walls and lids.

Everything, taps, lids etc had been cleaned with domestic bleach and rinsed under the tap before putting away for summer.

My bottle of Starsan is about eighteen months old , I have no Idea of its shelf life and how long it had been sitting in the shop that I bought it from.

So I am ditching the Starsan in favour of sodium met for use in storing my kit and bottles.

I mentioned the lid earlier. That's a difficult one to clean with a Kingkeg due to the sealing Vaseline in the threads and O ring but a rinse with sodium met and then clean water seems to work.
The fermenters that I have, had a grommet glued in the lid with an airlock glued into that. That was a really manky thing to clean.
I wish suppliers wouldn't use glue like that. Looks pretty in the shop and catalogues but is a real bacteria trap.

Check the lids on fermenters and kegs. No one seems to have mentioned them so far.

Cheers.

[Deebee]

I agree with the environmental thing.
If all equipment has been changed then cleaned carefully it cant be that.
A boiler tap can be nasty. I always dismantle what i can after each brew and lay it in Starsan til next time.. i alsonget a small brush and clean the actual ball valve then spray with starsan.

None the less, if all equipment is new then we have to look at post boil, environment, and bottling.
Sounds to me that everything that could be done cleaning wise has been done, so its something airborne i suggest.

Other than a kit, you could just boil some dme and ferment that. Its cheaper than a kit and alsthough its not going to be the beer you want it will maybe give you an idea.
I would suggest making small batches too. That way if it does go bad there is a much smaller cost.
I brew in a room in the garage. Its generally bloody cold there in the winter and the summer holds around 14 degrees.
Even here there is a lot of mould innthe air as the seals on the fridges are covered in it. Maybe inam just lucky but sofar i have only ever had 2 infected batches in near on 7 years

[Davidman]

Went to take a gravity reading this evening, and I'm not sure whether I'm massively paranoid or whether the steam and new tap hasn't worked.

Brewed about two and a half weeks ago, and I've taken one gravity reading in that time (using a boiled turkey baster), so the bucket has literally only been opened once in that time.

Tonight there is clearly something on the surface of the beer. Looks like it could be the lacto, or could it just be leftovers and byproducts of fermentation? It doesn't taste tart, but it rarely does at this stage. Very green obviously.

I've attached pics, so again, any input greatly appreciated.

[bquiggerz]

I've had many brews look like this and its never been a problem. Taste and smell will be your first tell tails I think. I may be wrong though.

[Davidman]

I've had many brews look like this and its never been a problem. Taste and smell will be your first tell tails I think. I may be wrong though.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot (maybe most) of mine have looked like this pre infection nightmare. Been so long now since I've brewed a non infected beer that I'm forgetting what a 'normal' fermentation looks like.

[bquiggerz]

I've had many brews look like this and its never been a problem. Taste and smell will be your first tell tails I think. I may be wrong though.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot (maybe most) of mine have looked like this pre infection nightmare. Been so long now since I've brewed a non infected beer that I'm forgetting what a 'normal' fermentation looks like.

Honestly, just give it a go, bottle/keg this and I'm sure it will be fine. Heat kills pretty much everything if used right.

[super_simian]

How airtight is your fermenter -does it hold positive CO2 pressure during fermentation? Why do you open the lid?

[The Epworth Brewer]

I've had many brews look like this and its never been a problem. Taste and smell will be your first tell tails I think. I may be wrong though.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a lot (maybe most) of mine have looked like this pre infection nightmare. Been so long now since I've brewed a non infected beer that I'm forgetting what a 'normal' fermentation looks like.

I share your pain Davidman. I have been going through this exact same problem all this year and I still am. For my latest brew I replaced my fermenter, filtered the mash run-off as well as the wort run-off. I had the most crystal clear wort ever and pitched 2 sachets of Gervin. A massive, lovely creamy yeast head formed and i thought I'd finally got shut of the problem. WRONG! 2 days in and the yeast head disappeared. Gravity had dropped to just below 1020 as before and has not budged since.
The mouthfeel is slightly prickly, like a lightly carbonated drink. It doesn't taste 'off' but it just doesn't taste right either. On Friday I'm going to brew with 35L of Tesco ashbeck mineral water + salt additions. Yorkshire Water have been out and taken a water sample, which passed their tests for domestic use but I have noticed that when our toilets flush they do leave a small but noticeable black mark in the pan so I'm going to rule out the tap water once and for all.
As far as the deposits on top of your brew are concerned I've had this as well, but not necessarily during these failures. One memorable brew had a Brupaks 'Teabag' of hops in the fermenter and the surface resembled danish blue cheese but it was perfectly alright.
One final comment. All this talk of airborne bacteria does not convince me. All my failures have been exactly the same, 36-48 hours of activity then dead stop and the yeast head has gone. They were all under airlocked lids except the latest one, which just had a non-airlock lid sitting loose on top. The point is the problems have been happening before the yeast head has gone so it's something already in the ale. Also, if airborne bacteria is such a problem how come so many large commercial brewers used open top fermenters?

[Pinto]

See that on a number of my brews - I put it down to hop oils congealing on the surface. Not lost any beer to it yet....

[Davidman]

Bottled on Thursday. No bottle bucket this time. Primed straight into the bucket, steam sterilised paddle to give it a whirl round.

I've bought a massive 60L bucket to use as a sort of steaming vessel. Seemed to work. Placed all bottles in upside down and blasted with steam for at least half an hour. Got a bit hot like. Also steamed a brand new siphon tube and tap, and boiled lids.

See how it turns out. I literally can do no more so if this batch has the lacto I'm all out of ideas.

[mosquat]

Fingers crossed for you mate