Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

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hambrook
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Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by hambrook » Thu May 21, 2015 8:00 pm

The attached picture is of 2 identical bottles with the same beer in. The one on the left has been stored in my garage, the one on the right has been in the fridge for 9 hours. It's a fairly simple beer with Maris-Otter, Caramalt, Torrified Wheat, Cascade hops and Safale US-05 yeast. It also behaved odd on brew day. It came out crystal clear at the end of the boil. Then when I immersion chilled it it went like peas soup.

This is classic chill haze. I do have a brew fridge which I read some people crash cool to 1 degree, but for how long for? Also this might not be possible when I am brewing 65 lire batches; so how would you treat this haze that only happens when chilled? I plan to bottle and cask some of this in the future for re-sale. I have some ideas but wanted to get some input and experience before ordering anything. FYI I also have 25 litres that I brewed yesterday so I'll need to order any needed stuff If I need to treat...
IMG_3951.jpg
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bigdave

Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by bigdave » Thu May 21, 2015 8:09 pm

Yup. That's a chill haze.

Before bottling rack off into a clean fv & crash cool, dissolve 1/2 a gelitine sheet in 500ml heated beer from the fv and add to the cold beer. Stir gently and leave for 24 hours (as cold as possible). Rack into a bottles by bucket & bottle as normal.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Dads_Ale » Thu May 21, 2015 8:25 pm

Do you use Irish Moss in the boil. I find that when I forget to put it in my beer is hazzy. Generally I do not have a problem with US05 and it stays crystal clear after a couple of days in the bottle and after a couple of weeks when it is put in the beer fridge.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by hambrook » Thu May 21, 2015 8:33 pm

Dads_Ale wrote:Do you use Irish Moss in the boil. I find that when I forget to put it in my beer is hazzy. Generally I do not have a problem with US05 and it stays crystal clear after a couple of days in the bottle and after a couple of weeks when it is put in the beer fridge.
3 grams or Irish Moss into the boil 10 mins from the end (25L batch). Drops clear fin, until you chill it down ready for serving then it is s the picture.
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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Jocky » Thu May 21, 2015 9:00 pm

I have the same issue, but not just with US-05, it's not dependent on the yeast, it still happens with flocculent yeasts like WLP005, and I chill fast after the boil and use protofloc, with my beers coming out super clear into the fermenter.

But I don't have the ability to do an extended cold condition (at this time of year at least), and it looks like gelatine is the answer.
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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Dads_Ale » Thu May 21, 2015 9:06 pm

hambrook wrote:
Dads_Ale wrote:Do you use Irish Moss in the boil. I find that when I forget to put it in my beer is hazzy. Generally I do not have a problem with US05 and it stays crystal clear after a couple of days in the bottle and after a couple of weeks when it is put in the beer fridge.
3 grams or Irish Moss into the boil 10 mins from the end (25L batch). Drops clear fin, until you chill it down ready for serving then it is s the picture.
Have just put a perfectly clear IPA ( similar recipe to your with US05) in my beer fridge and will see if it gets a haze. Fridge is set at 10c and beer has only been in the bottle for four days. Will then move to house fridge which is at a lower temp and see whAt happens and report back.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by hambrook » Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 pm

Dads_Ale wrote:
hambrook wrote:
Dads_Ale wrote:Do you use Irish Moss in the boil. I find that when I forget to put it in my beer is hazzy. Generally I do not have a problem with US05 and it stays crystal clear after a couple of days in the bottle and after a couple of weeks when it is put in the beer fridge.
3 grams or Irish Moss into the boil 10 mins from the end (25L batch). Drops clear fin, until you chill it down ready for serving then it is s the picture.
Have just put a perfectly clear IPA ( similar recipe to your with US05) in my beer fridge and will see if it gets a haze. Fridge is set at 10c and beer has only been in the bottle for four days. Will then move to house fridge which is at a lower temp and see whAt happens and report back.
Thanks its only when it goes in the domestic fridge (3 degrees) that the Chill Haze appear - I'm going to leave it in there for days to see what happens. Will certainly get Gelatin. No one has mentioned Isinglass or Auxillary Finings yet......?
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Aaron

Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Aaron » Thu May 21, 2015 9:44 pm

I compared gelatine with aux finings in a split batch. Gelatine worked noticeably better but that is just a single experiment. I'll repeat what was said above - the beer needs to be cold for gelatine to work properly.

beerbeerbeer

Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by beerbeerbeer » Thu May 21, 2015 11:00 pm

I have found 2 things that seem to really really impact hazes in my beer:
1. Ensuring healthy fermentation. I only splash my wort into the fv with no additional aeration and find that if i repitch lager yeast i get a hazy beer. Fresh dried yeast is way better- possibly because i dont aerate enough. Im not sure if this haze is chill haze but it defo doesnt settle out. I think its yeast haze.
2. The biggest factor i find is mash ph. If you nail the mash ph you might find your haze issues fo away. If you dont already maybe try some acid malt.

Other than that, use clarity ferm. Its magic.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by orlando » Fri May 22, 2015 8:09 am

There are a number of steps in the process that can be a help or hindrance in producing chill haze. You could start by using Crisp's new very low protein malt, make sure the mash pH falls into the right range, a really good hot break, boil don't simmer, consider skimming the wort as it comes to the boil. Copper finings, protafloc is excellent Irish Moss too. Fast chilling will help proteins precipitate out, let the wort settle out before run off. Ferment out completely and crash cool and hold for a few days, use finings whilst cold, gelatine or isinglass, the latter is less fluffy bottomed than gelatine and will resettle after moving, gelatine less so. Do all of that and you will struggle to get chill haze.
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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Goulders » Fri May 22, 2015 8:57 am

See this thread as well and Aleman's comments. Alan sells the Polyclar 730P he refers to.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Mcbrewer » Sat May 23, 2015 8:45 am

I used to get chill haze like that and now I use a vial of clarity ferm in each batch and it has disappeared.
You should give it a try your next batch and I'm sure your beer will stay like the one on the left when chilled,mine does now.
The Malt Miller sells them in his yeast section.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by hambrook » Mon May 25, 2015 7:47 am

Goulders wrote:See this thread as well and Aleman's comments. Alan sells the Polyclar 730P he refers to.
Thanks for the link 'Goulders'. Aleman's explanation certainly provides the science why and I can report that the mash pH was 5.6 and that the temperature controlled Braumeister prevented anything above 78 degrees. It really is the 180 grammes of hops in this 25 L brew that cause the Haze.

I have bought the Brupaks Polyclar Plus 730 and it advises to "Add 5 g to 200ml of freshly boiled water and stir until completely dissolved (15 mins). Add 2 hours before using finings."

My questions:
- Should the Polyclar Plus 730 resolve the chill Haze without finings? I don't want to remove anything from the beer that removes any flavour
- What finings would you recommend be used? There a selection at Murphy & Son: http://www.murphyhomebrew.com/finings/cat_6.html
- Is Clarity Ferm a 1 fix solution or does that require finings as well?

At the moment I have a bottle of my beer in a pub cellar testing to see if that has any chill haze. If it does not I wont put anything in the Casks but potentially use Polyclar Plus 730 and finings when bottling.
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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by Goulders » Mon May 25, 2015 8:05 am

I think it can be used on its own without finings OR with finings if you see the data sheet from Ashland. The Malt Miller suggests it can be used on its own.

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Re: Chill Haze with Safale US-05 Yeast

Post by hambrook » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:18 pm

Well the Polyclar was a mare to try and mix even after 15 mins stirring it was still clumpy. Resultant bottles have haze even at room temperature so wont use that stuff again.

Next batch of the same brew was in the new BM 50L so split the wort into 2 x FVs. 1 is in a brew fridge and after 8 days at 20 degrees syphoned into a secondary chilled to 10 degrees and today (day 10) pitched in half a packet of Dr Oetkar's Gelatin which I mixed with 200ml of warm wort taken from the FV and then gently tired into FV and put in fridge. Lowered temp to 8 degrees.

Frankly the FV that has been left on top of the new fridge and just been kept at 20 degrees is tasting much better than the one in the bare fridge that has a taste of damp rags about it. Also the one on top the bare fridge is that much clearer. And so the trying continues.

I still have a vile of clarity ferm to try.....
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