With respect darkonnis the OP wants to make beer that doesn't have a homebrew taste and is comparable to commercial quality ale - that starts with getting the process right at the very beginning which can only be done by understanding and managing alkalinity. "Brewers make wort, yeast makes beers" - if you start with substandard wort which is not the best it can be the yeast cannot make it any better. If you made 2 pale ales with high alkalinity water, 1 with no treatment and 1 with the correct alkalinity and ferment them with the same yeast at the same temperature I GUARANTEE the ale made with the correct alklinity will be the better beer hands down. I'm not advocating Burtonisation or anything that in depth just understanding alkalinity (actually the water report for West Sussex shows that chloride and sulphate are pretty well balanced so not much to do there). Don't get me wrong, having a brew fridge will make a difference but sorting alkalinity will make a bigger one - in fact there is no good reason not to do both at the same time given the low cost of a Salifert kit and some CRS/AMS.
Cheers
Steve
What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
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TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
The water treatment gurus in our club consider temperature control of fermentation more important than water treatment.
Water treatment should bump up the scoring of certain beers in a competition by 2-3 points, but no more than that, unless the style is especially sensitive to specific water profiles, like a bohemian pilsner.
Water treatment should bump up the scoring of certain beers in a competition by 2-3 points, but no more than that, unless the style is especially sensitive to specific water profiles, like a bohemian pilsner.
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I just happened to have popped into my local home brew shop this morning and the guy who owns lives just round the corner from me, i was asking him about water treatment products that he had for sale but he told me not to bother as our water is fine and he has won competitions with his beer using the water straight from the tap.
I may well look into it in the future but for now i'm just going to build my brew fridge and see how things go from there.
Thank you all again.
I may well look into it in the future but for now i'm just going to build my brew fridge and see how things go from there.
Thank you all again.
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
Funny how this has got a whiff of them and us about it, water treatment vs the fridges. Do both.
Incidentally the advice I have received from the local brewer was that regulating (i.e. reducing fluctuations) in temperature was the thing he learnt improved quality when homebrewing. He also, at a local homebrew club meet, advised water treatment. Interestingly, this was from a view to lower the terminal ph of the finished product and thus improving stability and shelf life.
Incidentally the advice I have received from the local brewer was that regulating (i.e. reducing fluctuations) in temperature was the thing he learnt improved quality when homebrewing. He also, at a local homebrew club meet, advised water treatment. Interestingly, this was from a view to lower the terminal ph of the finished product and thus improving stability and shelf life.
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Befuddler
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Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
Depends on your water supply. For some people the fridge will be the better option, for others their water might be unsuitable for most beer styles and needs to be treated before they can brew anything half decent.
"There are no strong beers, only weak men"
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Eric
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Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I'd hope not them and us. A fermentation fridge is a valuable addition, but it controls only temperature, a matter that can be measured with a simple instrument that is capable of interpretation by anyone who can read and count. Water chemistry on the other hand is more complicated and more easily misunderstood. It is also more costly to measure and this is of obvious concern to any without surplus funds.Sadfield wrote:Funny how this has got a whiff of them and us about it, water treatment vs the fridges. Do both.
Incidentally the advice I have received from the local brewer was that regulating (i.e. reducing fluctuations) in temperature was the thing he learnt improved quality when homebrewing. He also, at a local homebrew club meet, advised water treatment. Interestingly, this was from a view to lower the terminal ph of the finished product and thus improving stability and shelf life.
I don't mean this to sound like them and us either, but anyone who might doubt that pH of the finished beer is important has much to learn about brewing. Getting the water's chemistry to match the grist and style will result in the correct pH at every stage, including the last, the most vital for without it what was the purpose of your endeavours? I'd also like to point out that every beer has a style that needs complimentary liquor, not only pilsner which is so much talked about only because it was for so long misunderstood, resolved within my lifetime
A lot of brewers in the British Isles (and Ireland) are fortunate to live in regions where the water is suitable for making a wide range of beers with little or no adjustment, but that doesn't mean their experience or the advice they have received is valid for all. If you don't know what your water contains or what influences it has then either you are fortunate where you live, or otherwise you will benefit from learning about water treatment if your intention is to make the very best beers.
Raw Liquor pH 6.0-8.0
Treated Liquor pH 6.0-8.0
Mash pH 5.2-5.5
1st Runnings pH 4.8-5.2
Last Runnings pH 5.4-5.6
Wort in Copper pH 5.1-5.4
Wort after boil pH 4.9-5.3
Beer after fermentation pH 3.7-4.2
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.
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Padalac
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
As befuddler said, the importance of water treatment hinges on your water supply. For me, it is fairly important because my water has such a high residual alkalinity, my mash PH on a pale beer without CRS additions is around 6, which is simply way too high. If your alkalinity is already in the right range, then yes, any water treatment would just be tinkering. That's why it may appear to be more important to some people than others.
The same is true for the ferment fridge to some extent. If you happen to have a space that is already very stable temperature wise then you'll have less issues than someone brewing say, in an outdoor shed in winter. I know people who have a stable 19 C temperature for most of the year and for them, having a ferment fridge would have less of an impact than for me, where my temperature is wildly fluctuating over a 24 hour period, dropping to below 10C at night in winter, or going high above 20C in summer.
That said, there are fringe benefits to having a ferment fridge - it will do more than stabilise your temperature, it can allow you to step your temperature up during fermentation, crash cool your beer afterwards, brew lagers, adjust temperature for desired ester production, double as a keg/beer fridge, etc etc. These are all things you just don't have the option of doing if you rely on ambient temperature.
The same is true for the ferment fridge to some extent. If you happen to have a space that is already very stable temperature wise then you'll have less issues than someone brewing say, in an outdoor shed in winter. I know people who have a stable 19 C temperature for most of the year and for them, having a ferment fridge would have less of an impact than for me, where my temperature is wildly fluctuating over a 24 hour period, dropping to below 10C at night in winter, or going high above 20C in summer.
That said, there are fringe benefits to having a ferment fridge - it will do more than stabilise your temperature, it can allow you to step your temperature up during fermentation, crash cool your beer afterwards, brew lagers, adjust temperature for desired ester production, double as a keg/beer fridge, etc etc. These are all things you just don't have the option of doing if you rely on ambient temperature.
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verno
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I was going to provide some input on temperature but I now have a question on water treatment, having never done it. My water company search shows Calcium at 106mg/l and hardness at 265mg/l. It doesn't have any other info but I live in North Surrey. If I was to treat this water how would I know what to do? I will also have a look on the brewing liquor section.
On the fridge, I have one but am not electrically gifted to convert this to run at higher temperatures, so the max I get is about 6-7 degrees which is fine for a lager but not an ale. What I did was buy an acquarium heater from ebay for £4 or something, get a builders bucket and fill with water and then rest my FV in it. The water needs to fully surround the beer like a jacket. I then just stir the water twice a day to ensure an even temperature.
I would definitely say this has improved the beers and if converting a fridge isn't your cup of tea, its a good halfway house.
On the fridge, I have one but am not electrically gifted to convert this to run at higher temperatures, so the max I get is about 6-7 degrees which is fine for a lager but not an ale. What I did was buy an acquarium heater from ebay for £4 or something, get a builders bucket and fill with water and then rest my FV in it. The water needs to fully surround the beer like a jacket. I then just stir the water twice a day to ensure an even temperature.
I would definitely say this has improved the beers and if converting a fridge isn't your cup of tea, its a good halfway house.
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Eric
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Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I think by their mathematical relationship, that might be only one measurement, that for hardness expressed as calcium and also expressed as calcium carbonate.
What is for sure is that your water will have high alkalinity by virtue of where you live and those numbers. Buy a kit for measuring alkalinity such as the Salifert. Using this will enable you to measure the water's alkalinity to determine how much of it needs to be neuralised for the brew you will make. With CRS (AMS), an acid that 1ml neutralises 183mg of alkalinity as CaCO3, to reduce its alkalinity to about 25 or 30 mg/l CaCO3 to brew a pale beer. Your water seems to have enough calcium to avoid any problems caused by shortage, so perhaps do no more at that stage.
Get your tap water analysed and with a bit of reading and your findings, you'll be in control.
What is for sure is that your water will have high alkalinity by virtue of where you live and those numbers. Buy a kit for measuring alkalinity such as the Salifert. Using this will enable you to measure the water's alkalinity to determine how much of it needs to be neuralised for the brew you will make. With CRS (AMS), an acid that 1ml neutralises 183mg of alkalinity as CaCO3, to reduce its alkalinity to about 25 or 30 mg/l CaCO3 to brew a pale beer. Your water seems to have enough calcium to avoid any problems caused by shortage, so perhaps do no more at that stage.
Get your tap water analysed and with a bit of reading and your findings, you'll be in control.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.
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Mr. Dripping
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
Water chemistry, followed by the fridge.
I can only echo what Eric has posted......I was on the point of giving up until I got a proper understanding of mash pH and getting the right alkalinity water for the chosen grist. There is only so much harsh, astringent beer one can stand to drink or throw away.
I can only echo what Eric has posted......I was on the point of giving up until I got a proper understanding of mash pH and getting the right alkalinity water for the chosen grist. There is only so much harsh, astringent beer one can stand to drink or throw away.
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chris.laws.54943
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
Verno, I'm also in NW Surrey and have recently started looking into water treatment to save a little on gallons of tesco or waitrose water! Get a salifert alkalinity test kit. Work out how much CRS you need to add. I've found upping the calcium is needed a bit too.verno wrote:Many thanks
This might be a little simplistic for some but it's made a huge difference to my AG brews and I gleaned most of it from Brupaks water treatment page. It basically walks you through it.
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DerbyshireNick
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I certainly have to weigh in on the "water only makes a small difference argument".
If you have an alkalinity of say 50ppm, so you are a tiny bit high for pales and a tiny bit low for stouts you will find water treatment only makes that tiny step from good to great.
if like myself you have an alkalinity of 100-150 or even more you will find that pales are very questionable. My mash PH was 6 or over! The beers were husky and astringent. With serious time (6 months) you might just consider them drinkable. But... My pales with the alkalinity reduced to 20-25ppm are outstanding IMHO
For what its worth to the OP:
More kit doesnt always help with the beer. Sure its fun but never buy kit under the illusion that it will improve the beer, I've been there done that and currently brew with a couple of pots on the stove. I am making beer that is levels above that I used to make on by big expensive SS rig. While this might just be my own experience, and I think its keeping it simple that has helped it is important that for MOST kit "upgrades" people understand that doing so is about the enjoyment of the hobby and it certainly wont fix fundamental flaws in ones process.
Water... depends on your source but for £6 pick up a salifert kit... you might as well know where you are and then can decide if you need to touch that whole area yet.
Fridge is a no brainier, if only for your sanity of not having to worry about temp!
If you have an alkalinity of say 50ppm, so you are a tiny bit high for pales and a tiny bit low for stouts you will find water treatment only makes that tiny step from good to great.
if like myself you have an alkalinity of 100-150 or even more you will find that pales are very questionable. My mash PH was 6 or over! The beers were husky and astringent. With serious time (6 months) you might just consider them drinkable. But... My pales with the alkalinity reduced to 20-25ppm are outstanding IMHO
For what its worth to the OP:
More kit doesnt always help with the beer. Sure its fun but never buy kit under the illusion that it will improve the beer, I've been there done that and currently brew with a couple of pots on the stove. I am making beer that is levels above that I used to make on by big expensive SS rig. While this might just be my own experience, and I think its keeping it simple that has helped it is important that for MOST kit "upgrades" people understand that doing so is about the enjoyment of the hobby and it certainly wont fix fundamental flaws in ones process.
Water... depends on your source but for £6 pick up a salifert kit... you might as well know where you are and then can decide if you need to touch that whole area yet.
Fridge is a no brainier, if only for your sanity of not having to worry about temp!
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Aleman
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Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
I'm firmly in the Fermentation Fridge camp . . . but . . . . you need a handle on alkalinity, get that in the right ball park for the style of beer you are brewing and everything else in the water is minor changes.
So 1 and 3 for me, but 3 only as far as alkalinity is concerned.
Yeast and fermentation provides between 60-70% of the flavour compounds in beer, giving the yeast the right stable conditions to ferment produces the best flavours . . . So that leaves 30-40% of the flavour compounds coming from Hops and then malt, and finally water . . . However as Eric has said if the mash pH isn't optimal (5.2 to 5.8 ), then flavours introduced at this stage will dominate the beer. For the vast majority of beer styles if you get the alkalinity right (With Acid, Slaked Lime or PreBoiling) you can brew with your tap water as it is with no further additions. Unless you live where the water is low in minerals, where it most certainly is beneficial to supplement calcium.
So 1 and 3 for me, but 3 only as far as alkalinity is concerned.
Yeast and fermentation provides between 60-70% of the flavour compounds in beer, giving the yeast the right stable conditions to ferment produces the best flavours . . . So that leaves 30-40% of the flavour compounds coming from Hops and then malt, and finally water . . . However as Eric has said if the mash pH isn't optimal (5.2 to 5.8 ), then flavours introduced at this stage will dominate the beer. For the vast majority of beer styles if you get the alkalinity right (With Acid, Slaked Lime or PreBoiling) you can brew with your tap water as it is with no further additions. Unless you live where the water is low in minerals, where it most certainly is beneficial to supplement calcium.
Re: What's the one thing i can do to improve my beer?
Wow, I'm surprised this thread is still going! Any how I've completed another brew since I started this thread and it is outstanding, better than many commercial beers I've had (big headed I know). I didn't actually implement any changes yet but by chance it was fermenting during a very stable period in the weather where by chance the temperature barely fluctuated. So I think I may have got the answer there. I have now acquired a fridge and next month I'll be getting the remaining bits to convert it into a brew fridge, which will be used for my next brew a Harvey's best clone, then I may turn my attention to water. Thanks all.