Candi sugar question
Candi sugar question
I have bought and used my first candi sugar. I bought the light version which came as crystalised chips (about 1cm cubed)
It has not given any sort of caramel/candi flavour that I would have expected.
Is the idea that it caremelises in the wort boil? I stirred mine in to prevent it burning was this a mistake?
Do the dark varieties have stronger caramel/toasted sugar tastes? Is candi sugar syrup better?
Thanks
Brewbrew
It has not given any sort of caramel/candi flavour that I would have expected.
Is the idea that it caremelises in the wort boil? I stirred mine in to prevent it burning was this a mistake?
Do the dark varieties have stronger caramel/toasted sugar tastes? Is candi sugar syrup better?
Thanks
Brewbrew
- Pinto
- Falling off the Barstool
- Posts: 3443
- Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:09 pm
- Location: Rye, East Sussex
Re: Candi sugar question
Candi is just a form of invert sugar - it can give flavour and colour, but only in it's darkest versions. Belgian flavour comes from proper selection and use of the yeasts; what candi does do tho, it to give the high gravity/light body to a belgian ale that is so important
Primary 1: Nonthing
Primary 2 : Nothing
Primary 3 : None
Secondary 1 : Empty
Secondary 1 : None
DJ(1) : Nowt
DJ(2) : N'otin....
In the Keg : Nada
Conditioning : Nowt
In the bottle : Cinnamonator TC, Apple Boost Cider, Apple & Strawberry Cider
Planning : AG #5 - Galaxy Pale (re-brew) / #6 - Alco-Brau (Special Brew Clone) / #7 Something belgian...
Projects : Mini-brew (12l brew length kit) nearly ready
Join the BrewChat - open minds and adults only - Click here
Primary 2 : Nothing
Primary 3 : None
Secondary 1 : Empty
Secondary 1 : None
DJ(1) : Nowt
DJ(2) : N'otin....
In the Keg : Nada
Conditioning : Nowt
In the bottle : Cinnamonator TC, Apple Boost Cider, Apple & Strawberry Cider
Planning : AG #5 - Galaxy Pale (re-brew) / #6 - Alco-Brau (Special Brew Clone) / #7 Something belgian...
Projects : Mini-brew (12l brew length kit) nearly ready
Join the BrewChat - open minds and adults only - Click here
-
- Hollow Legs
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:57 pm
- Location: Lockerbie,Scotland
Re: Candi sugar question
Once I've opened a packet,be lucky if there's any left over to brew! Very moreish.
Getting Carlisle United into the First Division,is possibly the greatest football achievement of all time-Bill Shankly
Re: Candi sugar question
Not totally convinced the Dark Candi sugar I bought gives the claimed amount of colour (450 ebc), anyone had a similar issue?
- Fuggled Mind
- Hollow Legs
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:13 pm
- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Re: Candi sugar question
I thought that was the candi sugar syrup. Invert sugar shouldn't crystalise. The crystalised candi sugar is sucrose - not much different to ordinary table sugar made from sugarbeet.Pinto wrote:Candi is just a form of invert sugar
However, I have no idea whether there is a significant difference in taste between the crystalised and syrup forms of candi sugar. Hopefully, someone here has used both and can explain it better.
Cheers
Jason
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.
W. C. Fields
W. C. Fields
- Jocky
- Even further under the Table
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
- Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK
Re: Candi sugar question
If invert sugar is made by heating sucrose in an acidic liquid, wouldn't putting sucrose straight into the boil (wort is acidic) invert it?
When I was reading stuff around Belgian ales earlier this year it seemed that breweries only used dark candy syrup as a flavouring component - those that do use light syrup only do so purely for ease of use in their brewing process - they just as easily could use plain old sugar.
When I was reading stuff around Belgian ales earlier this year it seemed that breweries only used dark candy syrup as a flavouring component - those that do use light syrup only do so purely for ease of use in their brewing process - they just as easily could use plain old sugar.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
Re: Candi sugar question
Interesting!
I have a bottle of clear candi syrup ready to go and would be pleased to hear other people's comparisons between that and the clear candi rocks I have used in several tripels. I have read at least one opinion that the clear syrup does add more to the taste than the rocks, though I don't know why.
As said above, it seems generally accepted that the darker forms do add flavour, as well as colour.
I certainly won't be buying another bottle at £4.20 per 500g if it proves to make no difference vs cane sugar.
I have a bottle of clear candi syrup ready to go and would be pleased to hear other people's comparisons between that and the clear candi rocks I have used in several tripels. I have read at least one opinion that the clear syrup does add more to the taste than the rocks, though I don't know why.
As said above, it seems generally accepted that the darker forms do add flavour, as well as colour.
I certainly won't be buying another bottle at £4.20 per 500g if it proves to make no difference vs cane sugar.
Busy in the Summer House Brewery
Re: Candi sugar question
Inverted sugar can crystallise just like any other sugar, its just a little harder. If all water is removed it still still "set" into large crystals. I've been making sweets at home for years and have inverted more then my fair share of sucrose. Honey is a mixture of glucose and fructose that that can still crystallise with a water content of 17+%. Glucose will crystallise first as it is less soluble than fructose. But if all water is removed there's nothing left to keep the fructose from crystallising too.
- Jocky
- Even further under the Table
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
- Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK
Re: Candi sugar question
I'm not sure where Rob gets the information from, but on the Malt Miller site there are both clear rocks and syrup, but the content differs:
Belgian Candi Sugar Syrup Clear 500g
73% sugar total sugar content including:-
15% Fructose
15% Dextrose
70% Sucrose
Belgian candi sugar rocks clear 1kg
99.5% Sucrose
Belgian Candi Sugar Syrup Clear 500g
73% sugar total sugar content including:-
15% Fructose
15% Dextrose
70% Sucrose
Belgian candi sugar rocks clear 1kg
99.5% Sucrose
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
Re: Candi sugar question
£5.40 for 995g of sucrose. Or 90p for 1kg in the supermarket.
Re: Candi sugar question
http://www.themadfermentationist.com provides some interesting reading on this subject.
The experiment.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... -beer.html
The Results.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... sting.html
The Dark Belgian Sugar Experiment.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... iment.html
The experiment.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... -beer.html
The Results.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... sting.html
The Dark Belgian Sugar Experiment.
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/20 ... iment.html
- Jocky
- Even further under the Table
- Posts: 2738
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
- Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK
Re: Candi sugar question
Good reading that sadfield.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.
Re: Candi sugar question
I believe that's the ingredients... Not where in it after inverting the sugar, but I may be wrong
-
- Hollow Legs
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
- Location: Derbyshire, UK
Re: Candi sugar question
It seems from reading many different sources that Candi sugar for Belgian ales might just be a case of Emporers new clothes.
Although I appreciate it is possible to make it yourself, from simple sucrose, heating carefully with acid to invert and caramelise, I am not sure that is worth the time and effort either.
To try replacing candi sugar a simple cheaper approach would seem to be using Lyles Golden syrup, (as it is already mainly inverted monosaccharides of glucose and fructose) for the yeast to easily eat.
If I wanted to try matching dark candi sugar from a recipe, would a proportion of dark soft brown sugar, mucavado or molasses be a reasonable substitute? If so, has anyone got a proportion suggestion with the sugar/golden syrup or would they just substitute a little more high EBC crystal malt or similar for caramel flavour / colour?
PS I am well aware that the yeast strain and control of temperature of fermentation will be much more important in the Belgian beers.
Although I appreciate it is possible to make it yourself, from simple sucrose, heating carefully with acid to invert and caramelise, I am not sure that is worth the time and effort either.
To try replacing candi sugar a simple cheaper approach would seem to be using Lyles Golden syrup, (as it is already mainly inverted monosaccharides of glucose and fructose) for the yeast to easily eat.
If I wanted to try matching dark candi sugar from a recipe, would a proportion of dark soft brown sugar, mucavado or molasses be a reasonable substitute? If so, has anyone got a proportion suggestion with the sugar/golden syrup or would they just substitute a little more high EBC crystal malt or similar for caramel flavour / colour?
PS I am well aware that the yeast strain and control of temperature of fermentation will be much more important in the Belgian beers.
Re: Candi sugar question
As far as I'm aware, Belgian candi sugar is made by inverting refined (white) sugar, usually sugar beet, and it's pretty plain, in terms of flavour. Lyles Golden syrup is made from extracts from processing raw cane sugar and provides more flavour. For a Belgian beer, I'd invert white sugar or, as Jocky suggests, just add white sugar to the boil. Both work in my experience.