Candi sugar question

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Candi sugar question

Post by brewbrew » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:59 pm

I have bought and used my first candi sugar. I bought the light version which came as crystalised chips (about 1cm cubed)
It has not given any sort of caramel/candi flavour that I would have expected.
Is the idea that it caremelises in the wort boil? I stirred mine in to prevent it burning was this a mistake?
Do the dark varieties have stronger caramel/toasted sugar tastes? Is candi sugar syrup better?

Thanks

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Pinto
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Pinto » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:08 pm

Candi is just a form of invert sugar - it can give flavour and colour, but only in it's darkest versions. Belgian flavour comes from proper selection and use of the yeasts; what candi does do tho, it to give the high gravity/light body to a belgian ale that is so important :)
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by lord.president » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:20 pm

Once I've opened a packet,be lucky if there's any left over to brew! Very moreish.
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Sadfield
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Sadfield » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:33 pm

Not totally convinced the Dark Candi sugar I bought gives the claimed amount of colour (450 ebc), anyone had a similar issue?

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Fuggled Mind
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Fuggled Mind » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:32 am

Pinto wrote:Candi is just a form of invert sugar
I thought that was the candi sugar syrup. Invert sugar shouldn't crystalise. The crystalised candi sugar is sucrose - not much different to ordinary table sugar made from sugarbeet.

However, I have no idea whether there is a significant difference in taste between the crystalised and syrup forms of candi sugar. Hopefully, someone here has used both and can explain it better.

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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Jocky » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:12 am

If invert sugar is made by heating sucrose in an acidic liquid, wouldn't putting sucrose straight into the boil (wort is acidic) invert it?

When I was reading stuff around Belgian ales earlier this year it seemed that breweries only used dark candy syrup as a flavouring component - those that do use light syrup only do so purely for ease of use in their brewing process - they just as easily could use plain old sugar.
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by MTW » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:14 am

Interesting!

I have a bottle of clear candi syrup ready to go and would be pleased to hear other people's comparisons between that and the clear candi rocks I have used in several tripels. I have read at least one opinion that the clear syrup does add more to the taste than the rocks, though I don't know why.

As said above, it seems generally accepted that the darker forms do add flavour, as well as colour.

I certainly won't be buying another bottle at £4.20 per 500g if it proves to make no difference vs cane sugar.
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by bquiggerz » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:13 am

Inverted sugar can crystallise just like any other sugar, its just a little harder. If all water is removed it still still "set" into large crystals. I've been making sweets at home for years and have inverted more then my fair share of sucrose. Honey is a mixture of glucose and fructose that that can still crystallise with a water content of 17+%. Glucose will crystallise first as it is less soluble than fructose. But if all water is removed there's nothing left to keep the fructose from crystallising too.

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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Jocky » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:08 pm

I'm not sure where Rob gets the information from, but on the Malt Miller site there are both clear rocks and syrup, but the content differs:

Belgian Candi Sugar Syrup Clear 500g
73% sugar total sugar content including:-
15% Fructose
15% Dextrose
70% Sucrose

Belgian candi sugar rocks clear 1kg
99.5% Sucrose
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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by rpt » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:55 pm

£5.40 for 995g of sucrose. Or 90p for 1kg in the supermarket.

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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Sadfield » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:20 pm


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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Jocky » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:37 pm

Good reading that sadfield.
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bquiggerz

Re: Candi sugar question

Post by bquiggerz » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:21 pm

I believe that's the ingredients... Not where in it after inverting the sugar, but I may be wrong

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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by Kingfisher4 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:59 pm

It seems from reading many different sources that Candi sugar for Belgian ales might just be a case of Emporers new clothes.

Although I appreciate it is possible to make it yourself, from simple sucrose, heating carefully with acid to invert and caramelise, I am not sure that is worth the time and effort either.

To try replacing candi sugar a simple cheaper approach would seem to be using Lyles Golden syrup, (as it is already mainly inverted monosaccharides of glucose and fructose) for the yeast to easily eat.

If I wanted to try matching dark candi sugar from a recipe, would a proportion of dark soft brown sugar, mucavado or molasses be a reasonable substitute? If so, has anyone got a proportion suggestion with the sugar/golden syrup or would they just substitute a little more high EBC crystal malt or similar for caramel flavour / colour?

PS I am well aware that the yeast strain and control of temperature of fermentation will be much more important in the Belgian beers.

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Re: Candi sugar question

Post by McMullan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:53 pm

As far as I'm aware, Belgian candi sugar is made by inverting refined (white) sugar, usually sugar beet, and it's pretty plain, in terms of flavour. Lyles Golden syrup is made from extracts from processing raw cane sugar and provides more flavour. For a Belgian beer, I'd invert white sugar or, as Jocky suggests, just add white sugar to the boil. Both work in my experience.

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