No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

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hommebru

No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by hommebru » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:11 am

Hello all, it's been a while since I've posted and have been floating in and out for a while. Recently though I've swapped to the no-chill method due to convenience and have stumbled across some issues raised about hopping schedules when using this method. What I'm still scratching my head over is what exactly to do and would love some insight or ideas from you guys. From limited reading I've found that most people seem to have settled on following an adjusted schedule to keep things in check:

https://brulosophy.files.wordpress.com/ ... adjust.jpg

From what I've gathered the no-chill method makes late flavour and especially aroma additions hard to make due to the extended time the hops and hop oils are in contact with hot (over 80oC) wort as the temperature isn't rapidly dropped as with an immersion chiller. To counter this flavour and aroma additions are added to the cube and as a dry-hop respectively. However what I want to know is whether simply reducing the temperature of the wort to sub 80 oC (point of hop isomerisation) quickly and then leaving it to no chill in the cube after that point will stop these issues becoming a problem and allow for a normal hopping schedule.

I envision it with my current set-up as finishing the boil and then dropping in either some sanitised containers filled with ice or treated and sanitised ice (top-up) to the boiler, running off while above 80oC (but not by much) into the cube and then plunging the cube into cold water, once the hot wort has sanitised the cube itself, and then leaving it to cool down naturally after dropping below 80oC.

Thoughts?

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:20 pm

If you are actively chilling down to 80c you are risking the pasteurisation effect.

If you put the wort in hot and fast (ball valves & silicone hose help) and ensure complete surface contact, then drop to 80c in the cube, you can have the best of both worlds.

Once you hit 80c you can then time how long that took, and back calculate your IBU correction.

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by PhilB » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:53 pm

Hi hommmebru

Personally, I've never experienced any noticeable increase in bitterness from late boil additions when I've no-chilled :?

In terms of post-boil additions (and potentially late boil if you find "your mileage varies") there is an alternative way you may want to consider ... there's a guy on BIABrewer who advocates doing hop steeping at pitching time by;
  • cooling the cube down to a few degrees below pitching temp ... doing this has the side effect of helping clearing, since the science suggests that more cold break is produced the cooler the wort is cooled to. Potentially cooling your wort to very cold over days/weeks in your no-chill will produce more cold break than cooling your wort quickly to (only) pitching temp with a chiller :?
  • taking some cooled wort into a pan and warming it to 75C (or whatever temp you want to steep at) to do the steep for 30 mins - you could even boil this portion of your wort for 5-10 mins and add late additions to it, then cool it to do a steep, if you wanted to :?
  • and then sieving this into the rest of the cooled wort in the FV ... with the aims of the temps balancing out to pitching temp :wink:


I've brewed and no-chilled an SNPA clone, with a fair lump of Cascade post-boil steeped taking that approach and was very happy with the result :? :D ... very little effort, and involves no maths :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:22 pm

Nice ideas there. I suppose you could also boil up some extract to the same gravity as your wort and use it for late hop additions, and then dump straight into FV.


Hop teas work too.

In practice, I get nailed with excessively bitter beer with my late hops from no chilling.

Size and shape of the cubes is probably a big factor, as well as ambient temps.

I like the idea of keeping the cubes at low temps too. They will 'lager' and drop out a lot of cold break and other crap. Something to think about for the winter months.

hommebru

Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by hommebru » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:38 pm

Thanks guys, and some good suggestions as well for use with the no-chill method. I guess what I'd really like to know is if getting the wort (in the cube or not) to below 80oC quickly is enough to prevent excessive bittering or a loss in aroma and flavour. Or whether the adjusted hop schedules and suggestions like yours have to be used to attain comparable results.

I think I may have to test some of this out and tbh with some hop-forward beers planned I'm leaning towards FWHing coupled with flameout and dry-hopping.

Do any other No-Chillers have any experience or advice?

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by super_simian » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:33 pm

My advice is: don't stuff around with the process. Transfer too cool and you will lose cubes to wild yeast and bacteria. Move your hop additions too radically, you will end up with unbalanced beer. Keep it simple.

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:16 pm

Once it goes in the cube, you won't lose aroma. It is trapped now until you pitch it.

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by super_simian » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:30 am

TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:Once it goes in the cube, you won't lose aroma. It is trapped now until you pitch it.
That's not entirely accurate. The hop oils will continue to isomerise in the hot wort, and may shift from delivering aroma to flavour or bitterness.

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by timbo41 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:06 am

I frequently no chill, and have found( at least to my limited palate) no real difference in the bitterness. I have though adjusted my schedule slightly. Now I mainly fwh, but with a reduction in amount, and have shifted by around 5 mins all other additions ie a 5 min addition is now at flameout. No real science or methodology tbh just felt right to reduce even by a small degree the late hop contact time. Incidentally, I start run off to cube ( I use a sanitised pressure barrel, like the robustness) almost immediately after flameout, but fairly slow flow rate. Then, when its available, I put pb into fridge. I do tend to get a very heavy break, but using a pb when racking into fv next day, I can adjust flow rate by opening the lid to prevent glugging. A small cautionary word though.. Whatever vessel you use clean it out asap because the break materialk, if allowed to dry, sticks like the proverbial and is a swine to shift
Just like trying new ideas!

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Re: No-Chill Brewing and Hop Schedules

Post by aamcle » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:35 am

I no chill, on most brews it makes no difference, but brews with a lot of late hops have issues.
If you use a hop sock (I use an old biab bag) you should not see any increase in bitterness.
This is a subject that has been debated very extensively on AHB and the threads are worth a read for anybody who wants to seat up on it.

Atb. Aamcle

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