Transitioning from Aus -> UK

[Matt in Birdham]

Hi All,
First up, great forum - I've been lurking around over the last few weeks trying to get up to speed on UK brewing.

I am originally from the UK and have (fairly) recently returned from a 10 year stint in Aus (Queensland), during which time I got into home brewing, latterly all-grain.

I have finally got round to unpacking the brewing gear and want to get cracking, but I am facing a few "challenges" that I did not have where I was living down-under.

My first issue is water, or more specifically the high alkalinity we get over here. I am in the Portsmouth water area, and according to [url=https://www.portsmouthwater.co.uk/wp-co ... y_2014.pdf]their water report[/url] we have alkalinity up in the 250-280 ppm (as CaCO3) range. I have done a GH/KH test on the water also and got similar numbers.
Whilst I am happy enough to use bottled (Ashbeck seems the bottled of choice), I would really prefer to dial in a treatment for my own water - "just because" I suppose, and also because it would be slightly cheaper and less effort. I think the alkalinity is too high to adjust with acid so I have been experimenting with slaked lime treatment. First results seem very good - I got a KH/GH of 3/8 dH after treating a 5l test batch overnight (according to the Kaiser water calculator, this gives about 53ppm alkalinity - I'd be happy to adjust and brew with this water).
My question is this: what I really want to do is get my pre/post treatment water tested properly, but I have been unable to get hold of phoenix analytics by either phone or email, and the Murphys site homebrew section seems also to be defunct. Any ideas where I can get a couple of samples tested now?

Getting the water "right" was really a breakthrough moment for me in AG brewing - I went from good beers to (IMO ) excellent beers overnight - it just seemed there was something missing before, and this time I want to get that side of things completely sorted before starting again.

My other issue is fermentation temps - I have only brewed in hot conditions, so for me it was all about temp-controlled fridges whereas here I will be brewing in the garage, and we are already hitting single digits overnight. So for (potentially very cold) fermentation conditions would you recommend belt, mat or immersion? I do have an STC1000 that I used to use on the fridge, so this can be used as a thermostat. I also have a fridge in the garage that could be used as an insulated box (i.e. not switched on).

cheers,
Matt

[Aleman]

Contact wallybrew via PM on here, Neil (Phoenix Analytical) will get back to you . . . Really is the best place to get your water tested.

Kudos to you for doing treatment using Slaked Lime, most who find that the alkalinity is high enough to 'possibly cause issues with acid treatment go for dilution with RO water. At least with Slaked lime alkalinity adjustment you leave the other minerals alone.

[Matt in Birdham]

Thanks Aleman, have sent him a PM.
I like the idea of the slaked lime treatment because it is only removing stuff, not adding anything - and it looks as if it should get the water well in range to be tweaked further with a bit of CaCl and Gypsum. I have always used acidulated malt for the mash ph and this has worked well for me.

Slaked lime is a weird one in that a lot of people on the 'net seem to think it is hard to do, and it doesn't seem to be a popular treatment - but on the face of it it is perfect for our sort of water. I'm no chemist so I followed all the advice I could find and, after one test at least, it seems to have done exactly what it is supposed to. The idea of it being hard to get "right" is why I really want to get a before and after set of test results - which of course I will post here, as they could be very interesting!

[Matt in Birdham]

Also to add that we are renting at the moment, so a RO system is probably not on the cards yet. I'll get on in a heartbeat when we finally buy a place and I can set my brewery up properly.

[Eric]

You might try just using CRS to get alkalinity into the preferred range for brewing with no other treatment. It won't taste like Australian beer, but some people like it.

A simple and cheap form of fermentation temperature control in a UK garage during winter would be with a plastic FV in a plastic trug with water and an aquarium heater.

[Dennis King]

+1 for Neil's testing, first class service.

[Matt in Birdham]

Thanks chaps. With the aquarium heater, what sort of wattage would you recommend? These heaters seem incredibly cheap, so sound like a good option. Do you sanitize the water in the trug? My fermentors do have taps at the bottom, but I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be OK to have them submerged?

[Eric]

My heaters are 300W and 500W but most folk seem to manage well with lower wattage units.
Didn't think about the tap. I just buy the likes of these when they are on offer and put the old ones to other duties. That means just using tap water which I can chill if needed by replacing some water with ice.

What are your thoughts on using Carbonate Reducing Solution as a quick single step solution to high alkalinity?

[Matt in Birdham]

Thanks Eric - I think you are right, a bucket will be a better option then I can add a bit of bleach to the heating water if required (probably won't be I guess, but better safe than sorry).
I'm researching the CRS since your suggestion - I would end with more sulphates and chlorides as a result, but it would be interesting to get an idea of just how much, especially starting with water as hard as mine. In principal I prefer the idea of simply removing the alkalinity without adding anything back and first experiment with slaked lime seemed positive. This was also very simple (and cheap) being just an addition of 1.1g of slaked lime and a pinch of chalk to 5l of water, stirring and leaving overnight - that seemed to get me down to about 50 ppm alkalinity.

[Eric]

I don't know this for fact, but I'd bet slaked lime treatment for alkalinity reduction is more talked about than practised while acid treatment is more maligned than it is understood.
From what I read, slaked lime is more commonly used to provide alkalinity in order to reduce or eliminate acidic corrosion than it is for reducing alkalinity. Now while slaked lime used at a precise rate for the appropriate duration will sediment calcium and reduce alkalinity, might it be something that is simply more frequently advocated by those without need to reduce alkalinity and accordingly of little brewing experience with highly ionised water as compared to the number of brewers who actually use the process? It would seem by my findings on brewing forums there is frequent advice to use slaked lime while finding it hard to recall a brewday report by anyone actually doing so.
There is no argument about the cost of slaked lime treatment if you don't count time and get it right first time. It costs me more, maybe going on to £5 for a year's brewing with my array of accumulated acids, but it takes just a few minutes each brew and if I get it wrong, takes a minute or two more to correct, no need to wait until the next day.

Please, can you explain to me why we have reached a point where the inclusion of sulphates and chlorides in water for beer is frowned upon by so many. Do the package sizes here and here (item 3) suggest to you such addition should be used sparingly or even avoided?

Like you I have highly alkaline water and while there are occasions that I don't add salts and do need to consider what needs to be done to keep particular levels low, most times I need to add salts to the mash and the boil to get the effect I desire.

[Matt in Birdham]

No argument from me Eric, I haven't tried brewing with highly alkaline water yet so I am just weighing up the options. I'll probably try both (slaked lime & CRS) and compare the beers - ultimately the only way to make a decision (the cost side is fairly trivial for both, and they are both preferable to the faff & cost of using bottled for each brew).
I also noticed that not many people seem to using slaked lime for this purpose, so that is why I am keen to get my water tested pre/post treatment to see if it really can be as easy as it looks. It is, though, apparently very common for German commercial brewers to treat their water in this way, and a few of the articles I've read online do express surprise that more people don't consider it as an option.

Reading this forum though a lot of people do seem to suggest using bottled water to avoid the alkalinity. So I wonder if they have tried the CRS only route and decided against it? Would be interesting to get some views.

I do tend to brew paler beers, so off flavours don't have anywhere to hide.

[Aleman]

I think you're right Matt, those with high alkalinity using CRS in pale beers may well end up with a sour taste in the beer. It is this that makes them look at using bottled water rather than perhaps something like slaked lime for some of the alkalinity reduction and then acid for the rest. Using separate acids rather than CRS allows for manipulation of the sulphate and chloride levels without using additional salts.

[Eric]

Thanks for the reply.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to get my grandma to suck eggs or anything like that, just from being one of many in UK and Ireland with highly alkaline water who'd initially wasn't able to make pale beers with decent hop flavours and aromas consistently until after I could measure, then quickly, cheaply and accurately control alkalinity. It was not always be still mostly necessary to add calcium salts into the mash and boil, even the sparge in some styles to keep all stages and bits and bobs in their sweet spots. The advent of the internet and the birth of brewing forums massively speeded the spread of this knowledge, then suddenly, so it seemed to me, there was a kind of backlash against all the tricks and skills I knew to make a bright, sweet smelling and tasty beer able to be drank well inside the same month as it was made.
There's no reason not to use low ion water to make beers, they are, if made properly, frequently lighter and delicate than those I prefer to make, do require more time to clear and on occasions won't do so during their shelf life. I fear the reason many choose to use bottled water, often costing more than my finished beer, is the spread of incomplete knowledge by some without experience of brewing with pure natural mineral water of the sort that comes out of your tap and mine.
CRS might not be the best choice for dealing with your water, that you would only know after learning what minerals it contains. Earlier this afternoon I measure the TDS of mine and it was down to 330ppm compared to 550ppm a couple od weeks ago, and I've sent a PM to WallyBrew to see when he's doing his next testing. Suggest you might want to do the same.
Best wishes.

[Matt in Birdham]

Just to be clear Eric, I have always added CaCl and Gypsum to my water. It's just that I am more comfortable (through experience) of doing this from a low base, rather than adjusting the other way around. I just need to start brewing and get used to my "new" water and whichever way I end up going it is going to take a few brews to get the feel of things. If I had to, I would take the bottled water route but I would much prefer to dial in an adjustment process for my tap water.
Have dropped Wallybrew a pm (a couple actually - does the mail showing in my "outbox" mean I sent it OK, or should it appear in "sent"? bit confused by that one..). Looking forward to get pre/post treatment results. Might also be interesting to get full post CRS treatment results as well.

[Eric]

It will show in your outbox until Neil reads it.
If you are unsure what various acids will do to your water, once you have an analysis post it in the Water section where you'll get a range of options in replies.