Mashing and Sparging for Dummies - Help Needed

[rowyourboat]

I've been dabbling with all-grain brewing for a while and have had some great end results, but other times I don't get a great efficiency in my wort. As I don't brew very often, I can't remember step by step what I do each time but I'd appreciate some tips/guidance around sparging in particular. I'm planning a brewday this weekend and I'm fed up of getting this bit wrong or muddling through and just keeping everything crossed!

To set the scene, I have a slightly dodgy home-made mash tun with a false bottom a bit like this:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Y ... 0-STEP-1-/
It holds it's heat well though for 90 mins and has produced some good results so I don't knock it - it's the workman not his tools going wrong here I think! Under the false bottom it holds approx 3 litres. The dead space (what doesn't drain isn't much so I'll say approx 0.5l for example's sake)

For illustration purposes, please assume I'm aiming for 23l final wort to brew, made with 4kg grains. (So I probably need approx 28l to boil.)

So, questions:

1. How much water to use for mashing? I've seen reference to using anywhere between 2-3 litres per kg. So assuming a 4kg mash, between 8-12 litres. I assume I shoudl also factor in the 3 litres under the space to 11-15 litres in reality? Any ideas on best ratio or is 2.5 l/kg as good a starting point as any other?

2. This is where I really think I start to fall down. With this type of mash tun what's better - fly or batch sparging? I have been attempting fly until now, slowly pouring over the grains for ages and draining very slowly. It's taken ages - well over an hour and I suspect I'm not doing it 100% right. So I'm thinking I'd like to try batch...

3. I assume next is to drain my existing mash - does this need to be done slowly or a particular rate?

4. Does any need to go back in (lautering?) and if so how much? Just once? What's the idea behind it?

5. If attempting a batch sparge, what next? 2 equal volumes are best apparently? So My initial drain on a 2.5l/kg mash might be approx 13l less 4l grain absorbtion and 0.5 l dead space = 8.5l. So allowing 2 batches of 10l would be okay to get approx 28l at the end? How long should the batch sit for and should it be stirred at all or just left? Should any go back in as per q4 above?

6. Presume the 2nd batch should be as per the first?

7. Any other comments/suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[jaroporter]

ah fond memories, the instructable that got me mashing! that tun gave better efficiency than now i've "upgraded" to a larger coolbox/manifold arrangement. though mine was poorly insulated and impossible to clean..

1. i calculated 2,5-3L liquor per kg malt, then added the space under the bucket for all calculations (strike temp, water treatment, etc.). so say 4kg grain times 3L/kg is 12L, plus 3L under bucket and i'm mashing in with 15L liquor.

2. when fly sparging properly you can most likely get a higher efficiency and more control over the wort, but batch is generally a simpler principle. haven't done it many times myself so i don't know any clever tricks, more than what you've probably read about the place already, i'm afraid

[rowyourboat]

Thanks, Jaroporter, nice to see someone else went with the cheap option. And thanks for your advice.

When you fly sparge what lauterimg do you do?

Comments from anyone else still also gladly received.

[Wonkydonkey]

The thing I have noticed with batch sparging, which has been my main way of doing it. It is how much sugars that are being left behind in the grain.
The reason I have just noticed is have just recently got a refractometer, so I can check the wort as it comes out, the last 2 times I have brewed the last runnings were 1.045 and d 1.040.

I can't remember what SG you are supposed to sparge down to. But it seems like I could get more sugars out of that grain bed, but I know you have tobe carfull of extracting tanins.

So next time I brew I will try fly sparging.

The only other thing that I do, is the first runnings from the mash tun go back in the mash til the grain bed is forming and does not allow any more small bit thru, as you don't really want to boil grain bits

Hope this helps a bit..

[Deebee]

1. Add the total deadspace to the mash figures. It makes it easier.
So mashin at 3l/kg gives you 12 l plus the 3 under the fb.. son15 total.

I started flysparging and it did indeed take ages. The estimate is about .3 l pr minute so if you have 20 l thats at least an hour. That said you 28 l preboil volume seems a little low to me, deadspace in the boiler, losses to trub and hops, and boil off.
I lose about 10 l an hour.
So batch sparging. I have been doing 5his for the last 5 years and regularly hit 83-85% efficiency.

Mash as usual. Then lauter. In your case this will mean that the water under the false bottom will recirculate through the mash and might pick up some sugar on the way. I lauter tilni get no more bits in the jug.
So open the tap, slowly at first then after the first couple of litres open it fully.
I then close the tap when the tun is empty, fill with the designated amount of sparge water. Stir it well for a good few minutes then let it sit. I usually wait 15 minutes at least, but if its longer it does not matter.
Then lauter and drain. Close the tap and repeat til you have your preboil volume.
For us who brew on a small scale the cost of the extra malt needed for batch sparging contra fly is so small it is not worth thinking about to be honest

[rowyourboat]

It sounds like you're going the opposite direction to me, Wonkey. Good luck with it - hope it goes well!

Deebee - thanks for the steps - this is great. I was thinking I'd be happy to risk a slightly lower efficiency if I can reduce my sparging time, and I will add a little more grain to compensate for it this time just in case.

I realised what I refered to above as 'lautering' I think is also referred to as vorlauf elsewhere, and having done a bit more reading up I think I get that now. Thanks for the explanations.

Was thinking 10 to 15 mins for each sparge so will go higher end on that but just take some measurements as I go and see how it's panning out.

Roll on saturday - definitely looking forward to this now.

[Deebee]

It sounds like you're going the opposite direction to me, Wonkey. Good luck with it - hope it goes well!

Deebee - thanks for the steps - this is great. I was thinking I'd be happy to risk a slightly lower efficiency if I can reduce my sparging time, and I will add a little more grain to compensate for it this time just in case.

I realised what I refered to above as 'lautering' I think is also referred to as vorlauf elsewhere, and having done a bit more reading up I think I get that now. Thanks for the explanations.

Was thinking 10 to 15 mins for each sparge so will go higher end on that but just take some measurements as I go and see how it's panning out.

Roll on saturday - definitely looking forward to this now.

Make sure you dtir the grain well after you add the sparge water.
It is just simple osmosis at work. Unlike flysparging you do not need to be careful adding the water. You need to disturb the grain bed.
As for time,my ballpark is 15 mins,it if often over this though.
But make sure your scales and hydrometer are right.

[barry44]

Deebee, what temp do you take your first sparge water to?

I've noticed a slight hike in efficiency by raising it to 90° but at 73.5% I'm nowhere near your levels.

Cheers,

Barry

[Deebee]

Deebee, what temp do you take your first sparge water to?

I've noticed a slight hike in efficiency by raising it to 90° but at 73.5% I'm nowhere near your levels.

Cheers,

Barry

My sparge is at about 80 ish.
Thunk mine is to do with the crush. I have found a crush that is perfect for my mash. My mashtun is a 10 gall8m gatorade and efficiency got like 7-8% better as soon as i stated using that. Cant really explain

[rowyourboat]

Just wanted to say thanks to all who posted for their thoughts and advice. Brewed 2 weeks ago and managed to get about 73% efficiency which I'm quite happy with. Batch sparging seemed to go well, need to get the timings right in terms of heating water and draining what's there etc so may squeeze another couple of % on the next once if I can fine tune it.

[coops]

How do you guys work out your efficiency?

[rowyourboat]

You can use a calculator* like this to input your grains and the gravity you ended up with to get an efficiency:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

Or if you're calculating on the fly during a brew day you can use a recipe calculator* to input all the ingredients and then tweak the efficiency value at the top to be broadly in line with what you've got.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/r ... alculator/

I know this is perhaps a bit clunky and/or lazy but at that point I'm generally only after a rough idea - i.e. if I'm only getting 1.03 then something isn't right, and if I'm anything around 1.04 - 1.05 then I'm probably happy.

Took me a while to get my head around the full calculator and I still don't do anything about water profiles etc but I find them really useful now.




*Other calculators are available but these ones are the top results in Google so I tend to use them - others may know if there are better ones out there...