Confused by first wort hopping

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McMullan
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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by McMullan » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:38 am

Here’s a copy of the original FWH technical report, published 20 years ago. As can be seen, it involved a lot more than subjective sensory analysis. Whether or not someone can perceive it is more to do with their unique biology. FWH has an effect on the biochemistry of beer. I happen to be one of the people who thinks he can notice a pleasant difference in FWHd beers. I’m not saying my sense of taste is any better or worse than anyone else’s. Just that it’s wired up to my brain. I’m pretty confident about this too. Every beer I brewed last year was FWHd. This included some of my favourite recipes that I’ve been brewing for years. As far as I’m concerned, it took my beers to the next level by imparting a finer quality.

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Aleman
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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Aleman » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:57 am

McMullan wrote:Every time I read ‘brulosophy’ on a home brew forum, I sigh and mutter a string of expletives.
I'm glad I'm not the only one :D

There are some (Well One actually - The Lagering one) that I can look at the method, and say yeah I can see why that would work, and that is worth trying, but the vast majority that dispute centuries of brewing techniques . . . I go . . . Nah.

What you have got to remember in the centuries of brewing you can pretty much guarantee that any variation in brewing technique has been tried before, it didn't yield a better result in the long run and was subsequently discarded.

Another proponent of FWH here, don't know how or why it works, but it does AFAIAC. Superb for Lagers and Wheat beers, and I would bet 'balanced' single hop beers as well.

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by PhilB » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:53 pm

Hi Aleman

I have a couple of clarification questions ...
Aleman wrote:There are some (Well One actually - The Lagering one) that I can look at the method, and say yeah I can see why that would work ...
... did you just overlook The Fining with Gelatine One there? ... or are you suggesting that when I bought that "packet of powered pig products" that it was just "snake-oil" :? ... it seems to work for me, but there could be some "placebo" type effect, I suppose :?
Aleman wrote:Another proponent of FWH here ... Superb for Lagers and Wheat beers, and I would bet 'balanced' single hop beers as well.
... that's interesting, it seems that the "improved hop flavour and aroma" that this technique suggests, leads people to use it (all too often perhaps) in very hop forward beers (i.e. those with the (proverbial) $hit-load of late hops already in the recipe) :? ... I wonder whether that may well be the "flaw" in the "brulosopher's exbeeriment" (sic), where his approach to FWH simply seems to be to put the bittering hops into the kettle a bit earlier, with the first runnings :? ... would you advocate moving late addition hops to FWH instead, like the paper that McMullan linked to suggested, instead? Perhaps you could share a suggested pair ("without and with FWH") of lager/wheat-beer hopping schedules, that you may use, to illustrate? :?:

Thanks in advance
Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by critch » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:40 am

fwh isn't a new technique, its been used by british brewers for hundreds of years. in the higsons brew logs ive seen from the 1800's the did this extensively in fact the higsons recipe calls for nearly half the hop bill to be fwh

I was very sceptical at first being an avid fan of "throw tons in at the end" but it does work very well indeed

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Aleman » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:18 am

PhilB wrote:Hi Aleman

I have a couple of clarification questions ...
Aleman wrote:There are some (Well One actually - The Lagering one) that I can look at the method, and say yeah I can see why that would work ...
... did you just overlook The Fining with Gelatine One there? ... or are you suggesting that when I bought that "packet of powered pig products" that it was just "snake-oil" :? ... it seems to work for me, but there could be some "placebo" type effect, I suppose :?
Hi Phil

:D

Didn't realise that there was a gelatine xbeerment . . . then again I'm not all that interested in an 'experiment' that proves something that I've known all along in the 35 years I've been brewing. Gelatine fines beers . . . very well indeed. It was one of the things that was advocated by Dave Line in his books published in the 70's and I've used it ever since (when I don't have access to Decent isinglas finings :D ) . . . I'll go an have a look though :D

I'll post a couple of recipes / hopping schedules later

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by PhilB » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:28 pm

Hi Aleman
Aleman wrote:Gelatine fines beers . . . very well indeed
... that's a relief, I've got so much of the stuff that I'd never get to use in anything else :roll: ... :wink:
Aleman wrote:I'll post a couple of recipes / hopping schedules later
... much appreciated :wink: ... my personal take on the "confusion" around this technique, is that (like whirlpooling/post-boil steeping) many people are doing very different things, but talking as if there is ONLY ONE way of doing it :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by guypettigrew » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:33 pm

Having read through this thread, I'm fancying a FWH Motueka for tomorrow.

It'll be about 1.050, pale malt (86%), Munich malt (9%), pale crystal malt (4%) and flaked oats for the remaining 1%.

The plan is a 90 minute boil, with Motueka FWH 40g, another 20g after 60 minutes and another 20g after the wort's been cooled to 80C.

Or should all the hops be added as first wort hops?

Yeast will be Whitelabs 001.

All thoughts gratefully received.

Guy

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Aleman
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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Aleman » Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:20 pm

Could do it that way. . .Traditional FWH would have the 20g in as FWH and the 40 in at 90 minutes . . . Leaving the steep hops as is . . . Although again some would say all the late hops should go in as FWH. I don't do that personally.

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Dennis King » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:14 pm

I have always FWH but not necessarily by design. As I started brewing long before the internet I learnt from books and in the late 70's they were fairly basic so I don't recall reading when to add hops. So as a matter of routine I weighed and added the hops at the start of the sparge. Never found any reason to change.

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by WalesAles » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:02 am

Dennis King wrote: As I started brewing long before the internet I learnt from books and in the late 70's
Bloody Hell Mun!
I left school in the 70`s! :D
You must be as old as Yoda! :D :D

Dennis King Master Brewer! The Force is strong with You! :D

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by PhilB » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:07 pm

Hi Aleman

Errmmm ... gentle reminder ...
Aleman wrote:I'll post a couple of recipes / hopping schedules later
... [-o< [-o< [-o<

If it helps, I made a Helles before Xmas (Edel-Helles even, all H.Mittlefruh) ... 86% Lager Malt, 8.5% Munich, 3% Melanoidin, 2.5 Acid Malt, 23 lts to OG:1.046, bittered/hopped to 18 IBU with ... 45g H.Mittelfruh (3.6% AA) full boil and then 10g H.Mittelfruh for the last 5 mins ... if you wanted you could just suggest how you would put the hops into that, as FWH?

Thanks, in advance
Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Aleman » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:40 pm

PhilB wrote:Hi Aleman

Errmmm ... gentle reminder ...
Aleman wrote:I'll post a couple of recipes / hopping schedules later
... [-o< [-o< [-o<

If it helps, I made a Helles before Xmas (Edel-Helles even, all H.Mittlefruh) ... 86% Lager Malt, 8.5% Munich, 3% Melanoidin, 2.5 Acid Malt, 23 lts to OG:1.046, bittered/hopped to 18 IBU with ... 45g H.Mittelfruh (3.6% AA) full boil and then 10g H.Mittelfruh for the last 5 mins ... if you wanted you could just suggest how you would put the hops into that, as FWH?
:oops:

I would probably go with all the bittering addition as FWH, and keep the late addition as it is (Or In my case an 70- 80C steep)

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by alix101 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:13 pm

"Everybody should belive in something : and I belive I'll have another drink".

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by PhilB » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:40 pm

Hi Aleman

Thanks for revisiting this :wink: ...
Aleman wrote:I would probably go with all the bittering addition as FWH, and keep the late addition as it is (Or In my case an 70- 80C steep)
... but I wasn't expecting that, as it's in stark contrast to the approach used in that paper McMullen linked to above :? ... hey-ho, I guess more reading and experimenting for myself is called for :wink:

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Confused by first wort hopping

Post by Rookie » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:18 pm

PhilB wrote:Hi Aleman

Thanks for revisiting this :wink: ...
Aleman wrote:I would probably go with all the bittering addition as FWH, and keep the late addition as it is (Or In my case an 70- 80C steep)
... but I wasn't expecting that, as it's in stark contrast to the approach used in that paper McMullen linked to above :? ... hey-ho, I guess more reading and experimenting for myself is called for :wink:

Cheers, PhilB
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