1800s IPA aging question

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1800s IPA aging question

Post by Rookie » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:07 pm

I'm thinking about trying to recreate a British IPA from a couple of centuries ago.
It's my understanding that these beers were hopped to high heaven and aged a year or more before being shipped to India. Now, I understand that the holds of the ships were hot, but does anyone know what temperature the beers were aged at before shipping? Cellar? Room? Warm?
I'm just here for the beer.

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Sadfield
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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Sadfield » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:10 am

Not sure, but the Books and Blog of Ron Pattinson are probably your best starting point.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Brewers-Gu ... 1592538827

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Bazz » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:50 am

Mitch Steele's IPA book would give you all your answers, but if I remember correctly it was generally stored for a year in oak before it was shipped or bottled and at ambient temperatures, in large warehouses.

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DeGarre
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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by DeGarre » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:23 am

Bazz wrote:Mitch Steele's IPA book would give you all your answers...
Only if he researched Ron Pattinson's and Martyn Cornell's writings before writing his book.

bochgoch

Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by bochgoch » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:32 am

From what I've read the beer was stored for nine months or so in warehouses or even in the case of Bass outside. Given the variability of the British weather I think it's fair to say that there was minimal temperature control - that it was time rather than temperature that mattered. Whether that works for modern brewers where consistency is expected is up for debate (or even better, a trial over a few brews spread across the year).

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Donald » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:43 am

Why would the beer have been aged before shipping?
It was already going to take at least 9months to get to India in a ships hold.
I twould be interesting to see an original recpie because what was thought of as high alcohol and high hopped in the 1860s or even 1960s would likely be very different to what we think now: 7% ish and 50 IBUs would be a step change from milds, porter etc drunk by the majority then - not so special now tho!

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Clibit » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:01 am

The weather doesn't vary much in my bit of Britain.

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Hanglow
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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Hanglow » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:16 am

Donald wrote:Why would the beer have been aged before shipping?
It was already going to take at least 9months to get to India in a ships hold.
I twould be interesting to see an original recpie because what was thought of as high alcohol and high hopped in the 1860s or even 1960s would likely be very different to what we think now: 7% ish and 50 IBUs would be a step change from milds, porter etc drunk by the majority then - not so special now tho!

It would have had brett and probably pedio/lacto etc in it, so for it to be stable it would have to be aged for a long time, otherwise the barrels would have popped their corks so to speak on the trip over.

The earliest recipe ron has given was for the Reid IPA from the 1830's I think

100% Pale Malt
OG 1.056
FG 1.007
158 IBUs (theoretical of course :) )
All goldings, hopped at 90mins and 30 mins

If you wanted to recreate it then age for a year with at least brett C added in secondary. Probably other bugs too
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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Aleman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:30 am

Also don't forget the Durden Park Book Old British Beers and How to Make them . . . These recipes came directly out of the brewing ledgers of the breweries.

Donald it was more like 3 months on a voyage to India ;) . . . crossing the equator twice, and dropping to near zero temperatures rounding the Cape of Good Hope.

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Aleman » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:32 am

I actually know someone who was quizzed about IPA by Mitch, and despite having all the historical information delivered on a platter, Mitch decided to ignore it as it didn't agree with what he had already decided was going to go in the book. . . . Well it never made it in the book for whatever reason ;)

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Good Ed » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:02 am

+1 to the above, and you are not going to be able to recreate beers from the past, but it is well worth brewing these beers to the recipes that have been preserved in the brewing logs. Most early pale ales were just 100% pale malt and a shit load of hops (Goldings). I wouldn't bother with brett and just age the beer normally, depending on it's strength or how you like it this could be anywhere between 3 and 12 months or longer if you wish, at cellar temperature. If you are bottling, use lower priming rates than you would normally use.

The Durden Park book is well worth getting and Ron P's blog and books are a mine of information.

The pale malt mostly used in those days was a variety called Chevalier. This has been revived and Crisps have been malting this the last few years, although it is not widely available. You can read a bit from Martyn Cornell here. I've tasted beer made with it but haven't been able to get my hands on any yet. There is a thought that the insane amount of hops that were used was to counteract the pronounced body that you get from this malt.

Matt12398

Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by Matt12398 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:08 pm

Donald wrote:Why would the beer have been aged before shipping?
I twould be interesting to see an original recpie because what was thought of as high alcohol and high hopped in the 1860s or even 1960s would likely be very different to what we think now: 7% ish and 50 IBUs would be a step change from milds, porter etc drunk by the majority then - not so special now tho!
I think you'd be surprised. If you read Ron Pattinson's book you'll see the recipes from old brewing logs in the 1800s point towards high ABVs in a lot of cases. Many milds coming out around 10% ABV. I think it's important to remember that the term mild in the true sense has not translated well over time.

It's also worth remembering that changes in taxation as well as a couple of big wars in between, coupled with rationing, have driven changes in ABV from historic norms.

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by PhilB » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:12 pm

Aleman wrote:... on a voyage to India ... crossing the equator twice, and dropping to near zero temperatures rounding the Cape of Good Hope ...
... +1 Aleman ... and I don't think the effects of those extremes of temperature (along with the constant motion) should be underestimated (cf. the "Estufagem" process (link) used to age Madeira wine) :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by jubby » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:21 pm

I have made a few from Durden Park and currently have one on the go with lots of Cascade. I rack the beer into a corny keg and store at room temp tucked away in a cupboard for 8 to 12 months depending on IBU. I have a pressure gauge attached to the gas post and vent it occasionally as the pressure does tend to creep up.
Mr Nick's Brewhouse.

Thermopot HLT Conversion

Drinking: Mr Nick's East India IPA v3 First Gold & Citra quaffing ale
Conditioning:
FV:
Planned: Some other stuff.
Ageing:

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Re: 1800s IPA aging question

Post by simon12 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:15 pm

There seems to be alot of disagreement historically about IPA, the only thing agreed on is it would be pale malt only and lots of EKG hops. ABVs I have seen some saying 6-7% (the same as most other beers at the time) to 10-12%+. It was possibly dry hopped in the barrels for the journey as well.

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