1800s IPA aging question

[jubby]

Do you add Brett?

Either way it sounds like something other than your primary yeast is chewing through the remaining sugars.

No, don't use Brett. To be honest, I'd never heard of it until reading this thread...........just googled it

[Peatbogbrewer]

I did my (subverted) version of an old IPA adapted from radical brewing last August, pale malt crystal and tad wheat, hops all EKG. Without getting the book out it was about 8% ABV and 105 IBU, then aged in secondary with Brett C until end January at 14degsC, primed and bottled. It is just starting to get some carbonation, issue here is the slow work on priming sugars by Brett as the ale yeast had dropped out. Maybe priming with yeast is the way to go next time.

I don't leave my IPA's in the secondary that long, only about 3 to 4 weeks with dry hop then into keg & bottles. Mine have varied from 6 % to 8% ABV and between 200 & 300 IBU. In all of those that I have brewed and aged, I found that the pressure in the corny stabilized to about 5 psi after force carbonation to around 30psi (no priming sugars). However, after about 5 months at room temp the pressure starts to rise to the point at where the pressure gauge is on the stop at 50psi and the keg needs venting every week. Don't know why.......anybody? The bottles always end up too carbonated despite using only a dash of sugar so I don't add any now. I've always used 1098 or WLP007 with the exception of my last one which is WLP001. So, I'm guessing that yours will be fine if left at room temp for a while.

That'll be the patience bit i reckon Jubby, i'm a bugger for trying them too early....

[jubby]

Probably

Try storing it at the back of a cupboard somwhere out of sight. I fill a few 300ml bottles for sampling during maturation.Stops me fiddling with the keg.

[Rookie]

I fill a few 300ml bottles for sampling during maturation.Stops me fiddling with the keg.

Excellent idea.

[Jocky]

I'm keen to do something like this soon.

Personally I think that Brett (and to a less extent, oak) would have been a huge part of those beers. I can't see how even a highly hopped beer wouldn't be oxidised to oblivion otherwise after several months.

After seeing this thread I got curious and went and did some research.

First of all, I'm hugely, undeniably wrong that you can't age a beer with lots of hops in it. People do. Equally though there's plenty to suggest that an 1800s IPA would have had brett in it.

I've got to try this, so here's my plan:

Take something similar to one of Ron Pattinson's recipes for an early 1800s IPA - 100% pale malt, lots of goldings (although I may also use some challenger and fuggles because I have a stock), OG of about 1.070 and over 100 IBU, fermented with a British ale yeast.

After fermentation I'll bottle a some of the beer, then transfer the remainder to a smaller secondary and pitch a vile of Brett Clausenii (the supposed British brett strain) and let that go at it, maybe with some oak cubes too.

[Rookie]

After seeing this thread I got curious and went and did some research.
First of all, I'm hugely, undeniably wrong that you can't age a beer with lots of hops in it. People do. Equally though there's plenty to suggest that an 1800s IPA would have had brett in it.
I've got to try this, so here's my plan:
Take something similar to one of Ron Pattinson's recipes for an early 1800s IPA - 100% pale malt, lots of goldings (although I may also use some challenger and fuggles because I have a stock), OG of about 1.070 and over 100 IBU, fermented with a British ale yeast.
After fermentation I'll bottle a some of the beer, then transfer the remainder to a smaller secondary and pitch a vile of Brett Clausenii (the supposed British brett strain) and let that go at it, maybe with some oak cubes too.

That's similar to what I'm thinking about doing: 1.072, but with closer to 200 IBUs. I do plan on lots of goldings, but since I read that British brewers some times used non-British hops when the goldings supply wasn't available I'm going to go with challenger and something like hercules or magnum to bitter to lessen the amount of wort loss to hop absorption. And maybe some first gold which is similar to goldings but with higher AA%.
I hadn't planned to add brett, but I won't rule it out.

[jubby]

I've used single hop for all my attempts (except the USA) Goldings, Styrian (Aurora), fuggles, First Gold. Also a USA hopped one with Cascade, Simco & Citra dry hop. Favourite was the Styrian. Can't comment on the USA or First Gold because they are still ageing. All use around 1/2 kilo hops for 23 litres final quantity)

What do you use the Brett for? I ask because there's no mention of it in the Durden Park book.

[Jocky]

What do you use the Brett for? I ask because there's no mention of it in the Durden Park book.

Secondary fermentation/aging. Brett will further dry out a beer, munching up the long chain sugars and producing some fruity esters on the way, and seems to work as a guard against oxidation too.

I believe that it's very likely Brett would have been a key character of any vatted/aged ale up until the early 1900s, when Brett was identified (and even then after still).

We don't know for certain as there's no beer from that time to test, so we have to go on the descriptions/evidence:
- Beer picked up it's distinctive flavour after several months.
- Pale ale had a light, sparkling quality like champagne according to descriptions.

We also know that once in wood Brett is very difficult to remove, and barrels were reused, along with plenty of other wood in the breweries.

Of course, that could all be confirmation bias on my part, but, someone did find Brett in Bass Pale Ale in the 1940s: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... e-ale.html

So it seems likely to me that Brett was a part of the 1800s IPA that was shipped, and I intend to find out!

[jubby]

Thanks for the info Jocky.

I can believe the 'champagne' bit. as I mentioned in a previous post, the carbonation would be very high if I didn't vent the keg and that's without priming or brett. As for the flavour, these IPA's are unique. There's a depth and quality that I've never come across in any beer before.

Good luck with your quest to find the history of brett additions. There's no brett additions in the Durden Park book which was written using original brewers recipes but they have slightly adapted the recipes to suit modern day ingredients so it's possible they left it out.

[gr_baker]

Why would the beer have been aged before shipping?

Because some of them were so highly hopped as to be undrinkable at first.

I'd heard that it was because, at least in the early days, brewing was limited to November to March but sailing ships could only depart for India at certain times of year to ensure good sailing weather along the whole journey. The two didn't match up so that the beer was only ready to ship after the ships had left for that year so they had to wait until the following year. The very large amount of hops were partially to ensure survival of the beer whilst waiting for the ships.

I'm not sure where I read that but whatever the reason, the breweries at the time must have had extraordinary amounts of capital locked up in barrels and ageing stock. When technology later allowed year round brewing and shipping I suspect that there would have been huge financial pressure to stop or reduce the ageing process.

[Jocky]

No doubt there was a lot of capital locked up in aging. They would have aged a lot of barrels - hundreds or thousands possibly. I think there's an illustration in Ron's book showing something the size of a football pitch with 7/8 sets of barrels stacked on each other.

[Rookie]

We also know that once in wood Brett is very difficult to remove, and barrels were reused, along with plenty of other wood in the breweries.

Weren't most of the barrels lined with pitch or other substances that would have prevented them from having much, if any, effect on the beer?

[Rookie]

Why would the beer have been aged before shipping?

Because some of them were so highly hopped as to be undrinkable at first.

I'd heard that it was because, at least in the early days, brewing was limited to November to March but sailing ships could only depart for India at certain times of year to ensure good sailing weather along the whole journey. The two didn't match up so that the beer was only ready to ship after the ships had left for that year so they had to wait until the following year. The very large amount of hops were partially to ensure survival of the beer whilst waiting for the ships.

I've never heard that, but that doesn't mean it isn't so. It makes sense.

[Hanglow]

We also know that once in wood Brett is very difficult to remove, and barrels were reused, along with plenty of other wood in the breweries.

Won't most of the barrels lined with pitch or other substances that would have prevented them from having much, if any, effect on the beer?

Apparently not
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... n-oak.html

[Chug]

There seems to be lots of stories about IPA origins, I like the idea that Hogson's "October beer," allegedly it got its name from its harvest time brewing and this highly hopped, high gravity, highly attenuated pale ale would be ready for bottling after 12 months, and should then be kept in bottle for a further year, making it two years old before it was fit to drink. In the 4 months at sea to India the October beer gained some sort of maturity in the cask that would normally have taken two years and arrived in the East in prime condition.