golden syrup in brewing

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PhilB
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Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by PhilB » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:51 pm

Hi All

There's been a couple of comments in this thread about simple sugars increasing the overall fermentability of the wort :? ... however, there's mention in the White & Zainasheff, "Yeast" book (which I don't have with me, at the minute, so I won't quote), which is repeated/referenced in the BYO article by John Palmer that bellebouche linked to above where he says;
John Palmer, in BYO wrote:[Yeast] also ferment most of the monosaccharides before fermenting maltose and subsequently maltotriose. In fact, it is known that high levels of glucose and fructose in a wort (e.g. >15–20%) will inhibit the fermentation of maltose. This repressive behavior is probably a common cause of stuck fermentations in worts containing a lot of refined sugars — the yeast have fermented the monosaccharides and then quit, leaving more than half of the total sugars unfermented.
... but I'm wondering that (surely) that isn't an "all or nothing" situation :? ... it won't be that adding (invert) sugars makes the wort more fermentable until a (single) point where there's so much that ALL of the yeast cells lose the ability to ferment maltose and maltotriose and lead to a stalled ferment " leaving more than half of the total sugars unfermented" ... isn't it more likely to a be a curve where adding (invert) sugars to the recipe makes the wort more fermentable, until a point where adding more (invert) sugars causes SOME of the yeast to lose the ability to ferment maltose/maltotriose, and as you keep adding more (invert) sugars, the FG may then climb back upwards ... potentially passing the FG of the all-malt wort on it's way to "leaving more than half of the total sugars unfermented" :?: :?: ... if there were such a "curve" then there would be a "sweet spot" amount of (invert) sugar to add that would leave an FG slightly higher than an all-malt wort, with a higher proportion of maltose and maltotriose left in it :?
Mightn't that then cause a beer to end up (counter-intuitively) tasting MORE malty :?

This may not be a question specifically about Golden Syrup, as such ... but do the people above who have brewed with invert sugars feel they may have found this, at all? :?
Cheers, PhilB

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Fuggled Mind
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Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by Fuggled Mind » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:18 am

Piscator wrote:In my experience it adds a pleasant light toffee note which works particularly well in traditional bitters with moderate to low IBU's.
I've found it works really well with flaked maize in the grain bill as the maize gives a slight sweetness which the toffee note compliments nicely.

Cheers
Steve
Ok, I brewed a summer ale with 8% golden syrup (already mentioned in this thread). It's been 1 month in the bottle (six weeks is normally best for bottled beers) but I agree, there is a light toffee/caramel flavour. It's not overpowering and very subtle but it is there.

I've ordered a candy thermometer and I think I'll take the plunge and have a go at making invert no 1. It's not golden syrup but it's close enough.

The beer is not bad but my hop choice could have been better. One thing I know is that I'll brew again using this grain bill. I've decided that the beer is not that noticeably thin either.
46% pale malt
46% pilsner
8% golden syrup

Cheers

Jason
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.
W. C. Fields

Piscator

Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by Piscator » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:38 pm

Fuggled Mind wrote:
Piscator wrote:In my experience it adds a pleasant light toffee note which works particularly well in traditional bitters with moderate to low IBU's.
I've found it works really well with flaked maize in the grain bill as the maize gives a slight sweetness which the toffee note compliments nicely.

Cheers
Steve
Ok, I brewed a summer ale with 8% golden syrup (already mentioned in this thread). It's been 1 month in the bottle (six weeks is normally best for bottled beers) but I agree, there is a light toffee/caramel flavour. It's not overpowering and very subtle but it is there.
Glad you found it - it's a very subtle flavour which is more noticable as you breathe out after swallowing. I have found that earthy hops like Progress, Fuggles and WGV go quite nicely with it at low IBU's. In a more heavily hopped brew I think it is too subtle and would probably become lost.
In a trad English bitter I reallly like what it brings to the party.

Cheers
Steve

Wicks

Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by Wicks » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:25 am

I recently made a Barclay Perkins 1928 IPA from the recipe at Ron's site. It has Invert No 3 in it which I made up using some basic invert sugar and then adding some Lyles Black Treacle to it.
Tasted the first one at the weekend and it had a well balanced subtle taste, has the flaked maize in it also, as mentioned above, seems to go well together. Definite dryness to it.

Used this to make the invert..
http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-bre ... ers-invert

Secla
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Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by Secla » Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:08 pm

Well I brewed the osh clone with this in and it's fermenting as we speak.
The wort was ridiculously sweet but I'm sure it will ferment out fine

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Fuggled Mind
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Re: golden syrup in brewing

Post by Fuggled Mind » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:23 pm

Secla wrote:Well I brewed the osh clone with this in and it's fermenting as we speak.
The wort was ridiculously sweet but I'm sure it will ferment out fine
Keep us updated on how it turns out and what you think of the results.

Cheers

Jason
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water.
W. C. Fields

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