Invert sugar

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guypettigrew
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Invert sugar

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:44 am

Does anyone use invert sugar when brewing and, if you do, why do you use it? Is it just to get your desired OG with less malt, or is there another reason?

And where can it be bought? I can find dextrose quite easily, but it's not the same as invert sugar, is it?

Thanks.

Guy

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orlando
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by orlando » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:48 pm

No it isn't, far from it in fact. I usually use it when a recipe demands it, a lot of these are from traditional breweries making classic Bitters. The original driver for using sugar was War, Barley being restricted for food and not because it was cheap either, brewers found it just made great Beer. The phrase malt extender was often used to make the point. Fortunately it brought something to the party that was quite wonderful. There is a lusciousness to the Beer along with a little subtle sweetness and character from the non-fermentables. The big problem is getting hold of it. You can order 25k from RAGUS but no one needs that much. I have tried to encourage Rob at the Malt Miller to stock it in HB friendly amounts but no luck. If enough HB'ers Badgered him about stocking it he might see that the demand would be worth it. It is an arse ache to deal with though, in its block form. I know RAGUS do a liquid version which is what i would go for. The only way I have managed to get hold of it is as part of a group buy. If you have a Brew Club near by and you can persuade enough members to do it then this is the best way. The alternative is to make it yourself Ron Pattinson has a recipe in his Vintage Beers book. The cheats way is to make it from black strap molasses and Golden Syrup. Try here.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier)
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS), Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: India (real IPA), California Sun, Black Night
Up Next: Near Mild Heaven, Peaches (Peach IPA),
Planning: Autumn beer.

guypettigrew
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:02 pm

Thanks Orlando

There's this invert sugar on ebay. A quick read on Wiki tells me Invert sugar is a mix of Glucose and Fructose.

Both Glucose and Fructose are available on ebay. Could I buy them and mix them, do you think?

Guy

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orlando
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by orlando » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:33 pm

Don't know. My instinct would be to avoid. As for mixing the two, again no idea. I would get some black strap (black treacle will do) and a lot more GS. You need very little black starp so get a small tin.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier)
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS), Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: India (real IPA), California Sun, Black Night
Up Next: Near Mild Heaven, Peaches (Peach IPA),
Planning: Autumn beer.

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Dennis King
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Dennis King » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:37 pm

I bought 25KG a couple of years back and do believe it makes a difference. If stored cool and dry it does keep.

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orlando
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by orlando » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:40 pm

Dennis King wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:37 pm
I bought 25KG a couple of years back and do believe it makes a difference. If stored cool and dry it does keep.
How much have you got left? :D
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier)
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS), Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: India (real IPA), California Sun, Black Night
Up Next: Near Mild Heaven, Peaches (Peach IPA),
Planning: Autumn beer.

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Dennis King
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Dennis King » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:46 pm

orlando wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:40 pm
Dennis King wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:37 pm
I bought 25KG a couple of years back and do believe it makes a difference. If stored cool and dry it does keep.
How much have you got left? :D
Probably 4 or 5 kilo's

guypettigrew
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:00 pm

Dennis King wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:46 pm
orlando wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:40 pm
Dennis King wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:37 pm
I bought 25KG a couple of years back and do believe it makes a difference. If stored cool and dry it does keep.
How much have you got left? :D
Probably 4 or 5 kilo's
What sort of quantities do you use for a brew?

Guy

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Rubbery
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Rubbery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Golden syrup is partially inverted. I add to Best Bitter recipes to reduce body to make an easy drinking beer. 5% by weight added at the end of boil.

It also imparts a subtle flavour of its own. I find Tate & Lyle has a better taste than the supermarket own brands.

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HTH1975
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by HTH1975 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:14 pm

I used 425g in a 40L brew, ended up as 5.4% of fermentables.

10% is no bother - up to 20% is not unheard of. Depends what your goal is. You will get less body and also some colour/flavour too.

I’ve got a spare 2.5kg here if you want it. When I did the group buy it worked out at a tenner per 2.5kg

gobuchul
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by gobuchul » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:55 pm

You can make your own aprrently, using a bit of citric acid.

https://www.wikihow.com/Invert-Sugar

I've never tried it myself, has anyone had any success with this method?

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orlando
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by orlando » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:04 pm

gobuchul wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:55 pm
You can make your own aprrently, using a bit of citric acid.

https://www.wikihow.com/Invert-Sugar

I've never tried it myself, has anyone had any success with this method?
See my link above for the method I used.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier)
Conditioning: St. Petersburg (RIS), Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: India (real IPA), California Sun, Black Night
Up Next: Near Mild Heaven, Peaches (Peach IPA),
Planning: Autumn beer.

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Dennis King
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Dennis King » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:20 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:00 pm
Dennis King wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:46 pm
orlando wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:40 pm


How much have you got left? :D
Probably 4 or 5 kilo's
What sort of quantities do you use for a brew?

Guy
For a 23lt brew anything from 150gms to 250gms

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HTH1975
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by HTH1975 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:43 pm

I’ve tried making my own invert sugar and it tastes nothing like the invert sugar from Ragus.

If you want to brew with invert sugar, I strongly recommend getting the real deal.

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Re: Invert sugar

Post by jaroporter » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:12 pm

HTH1975 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:43 pm
I’ve tried making my own invert sugar and it tastes nothing like the invert sugar from Ragus.

If you want to brew with invert sugar, I strongly recommend getting the real deal.
interesting ya say that.. i actually found the opposite in that the invert #3 we got from ragus was quite similar in flavour to the stuff i made.. that said, the ease of the commerxial stuff would make me buy it again if convenient sooner than make it again.

i usually use 20% in a brew mainly just to get the most effect out of it but will put it in anything too
dazzled, doused in gin..

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