Invert sugar

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Hanglow
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Hanglow » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:50 pm

I like making it, get a big batch up to temp on the hob then put it in the oven until at it's desired colour. I have not tasted the real stuff but I do like what homemade adds to stouts and stronger ales at least. Key is not let it get too hot. I don't think I've used much in smaller beers. I tried making it once with molasses and syrup but it did not taste good, I think I had the wrong molasses maybe

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Normski
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Normski » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:42 pm

I know Eric makes it, He does use acid and I think its quite complex, but it is nice.
I often use T&L golden syrup, I was under the impression it was the same as invert No1.
Im sure Eric will be along shortly and tell how he makes his.
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FUBAR
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by FUBAR » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:52 pm

orlando wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:48 pm
The cheats way is to make it from black strap molasses and Golden Syrup. Try here.
My preferred method,having tried solid invert #1,2 & 3 its as near as damn it to the real deal doing it this way .
I buy my grain & hops from here http://www.homebrewkent.co.uk/


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Eric
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Eric » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:51 pm

As Normski says, I make invert using acid, but also have #1, 2 and 3 by Ragus. The latter is different to what I make even though my aim is to replicate theirs. Ragus sell 25 kg blocks via distributors and it is many times more costly than ordinary sugar which can be inverted at home.

Sucrose is fully fermentable, but before yeast can tackle it they first need to convert it to fructose and glucose using the enzyme invertase. By dissolving cane sugar in water and heating it does the same job, but the process takes quite a while to complete while it happens much more quickly by adding acid which lowers pH.

When light passes through sugar it experience an angular refraction, but light rotation through fructose and glucose is opposite to that passing through sucrose, hence its name. Anyone here an expert in optics and polarised light with a polarimeter would be the ideal candidate to experiment with the process.

Mostly I make a sort of #1 syrup by slowly dissolving a kg of granulate or caster cane sugar into a half litre of water on a low heat. When it is mostly dissolved and its temperature about 70C, an amount of acid sufficient to take the liquor to pH 2.0 is added and stirred gently while continuing light heat. The mixture which was previously cloudy, soon clears. As the mixture begins to simmer and starts showing very slight yellow, heating is stopped and a small amount of sodium bicarbonate is added to neutralise the now inverted sugar. If desired other sugars can be added because invert is more soluble than sucrose and also sweeter. Colouring can also be added with blackstrap, molasses, caramel or whatever takes your fancy. Adding 5% glucose (dextrose monohydrate or brewing sugar from Wilko's and others) will in time cause it to crystalise and go solid.

At 50P per kg it doesn't break the bank.
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guypettigrew
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by guypettigrew » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:39 pm

Hi Eric

Such a wonderful and easy to follow explanation of how to make invert sugar. But it's a bit of a tease! So, some questions.

Which acid do you use, and how much do you have to add to get a pH of 2.0? How do you check the pH?

What calculation do you use to work out how much sodium bicarbonate to add to neutralise the solution?

Do you always add dextrose to crystalise it, or do you keep it as a syrup?

Finally, what flavour advantage does invert sugar add to beer? Or is it just a brew extender?

So many questions!

Thanks.

Guy

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Eric
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Re: Invert sugar

Post by Eric » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:52 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:39 pm
Hi Eric

Such a wonderful and easy to follow explanation of how to make invert sugar. But it's a bit of a tease! So, some questions.

Which acid do you use, and how much do you have to add to get a pH of 2.0? How do you check the pH?

What calculation do you use to work out how much sodium bicarbonate to add to neutralise the solution?

Do you always add dextrose to crystalise it, or do you keep it as a syrup?

Finally, what flavour advantage does invert sugar add to beer? Or is it just a brew extender?

So many questions!

Thanks.

Guy
Food grade hydrochloric acid.

One litre of tapwater is treated to pH 4.5, the assumed endpoint for alkalinity. Half of that is treated to pH 2.0 with hydrochloric, then dumped. The other half used to dissolve the sugar and when at 70C the same quantity of the same acid is added.

Use the amount of sodium bicarb that will neutralise the acid needed to take the water from pH 4.5 to pH 2. I suppose you might add NaHCO3 to the half I said to dump until it was back to pH 4.5.

I don't usually add glucose, it's a sod to get out of the jars used to store it.

It can be used to increase brew length or strength, or reduce cost. It will change the flavour too which can be effected by what sugars are used or a combination of grains and sugars. Imagination plays a part.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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