Soy Sauce

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Binkie Huckaback
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Soy Sauce

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:31 pm

I've not brewed for maybe a couple of years, but a couple of weeks ago with a bunch of out-of-date-ingredients (except the yeast and golding hops) brewed the Boddington's Mild from Graham Wheeler's BYOBRA, well aware that the result could be awful, but wanting to check my method and equipment was still fine.

The packet of fuggles that weren't in date were part-used and had been stored in the freezer, the grain in not ideal conditions in a clean black plastic bin in an outbuilding for a couple of years. The hops smelled fine when I opened them, the grain, again all open packs all smelled like grain, was free-flowing and didn't look mouldy.

Today, I bottled it. It smelled very yeasty/bready and the taste was not off, not horrible, but odd. My girlfriend tried some and before even tasting it, said 'soy sauce'. I have to say, I agree. Does anyone have any thoughts? As I said, I wan't expecting much and this was as much a test run as anything.

I only hit my volume target by diluting, but that enabled me to hit the correct OG and the beer was just about bang of at FG. I used a 90 minute mash and 90 minute boil. The only thing that didn't go to plan was that the mash stuck. Does anyone have anyone have any comments or suggestions?

I went ahead and bottled it anyway, as in the past I've brewed a couple of beers that were not great, but improved greatly with age.

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IPA
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by IPA » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:45 am

Joined Friday 13 July 2018 :lol:
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joe1002
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by joe1002 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:56 am

What were your fermentation temps and how long was it in the FV?

Binkie Huckaback
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:22 am

Ah. Fermentation temperature was probably cooler than it should have been, but no cooler than I have, on occasion brewed before. It was in the FV for 17 days.

Robwalkeragain
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Robwalkeragain » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:56 am

I would assume an issue with yeast vitality. How was the yeast stored?

Binkie Huckaback
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:35 pm

The yeast was in date, had been stored in the freezer, brought to room temperature slowly and re-hydrated in wort with some sugar following my usual procedure.

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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Northern Brewer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:02 pm

Most likely cause is yeast autolysis (ie beer has spent too long on dead yeast, which is a factor of fermentation time and yeast happiness), less likely cause is some of the byproducts of the grain partially "composting" in poor storage conditions.

You said the yeast was frozen - what yeast are we talking about, are you freezing commercial packs or your own glycerol stocks?

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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Robwalkeragain » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:25 pm

Yea soy sauce is classic umami/autolysis, and its in the aroma too so unlikely to be water chemistry related. I would go out on a punt and say your grain is probably buggered, or there’s uncleanliness in your kit. Issues in grain can still be microbial even if it looks fine.

Honestly the easiest way is probably to strip uour kit down and buy new ingredients. Job done!

Robwalkeragain
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Robwalkeragain » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:28 pm

Yea soy sauce is classic umami/autolysis, and its in the aroma too so unlikely to be water chemistry related. I would go out on a punt and say your grain is probably buggered, or there’s uncleanliness in your kit. Issues in grain can still be microbial even if it looks fine.

Honestly the easiest way is probably to strip uour kit down and buy new ingredients. Job done!

Binkie Huckaback
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:12 am

Thanks guys. I thought the beer might not be a success, but I have to say, it's a flavour I never expected to encounter in beer.


IPA: It's taken me a while to work out what you meant by'Joined Friday 13 July 2018 :lol:'. But yes,haha, well spotted. I was a member for years, but lost my account in the great GDPR thing.

Northern Brewer: The yeast was Safale S04

johnnyboy1965
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by johnnyboy1965 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:23 pm

The great debate of describing a beer online. Its impossible..Ill give it a shot.

Autolysis of beer has never been proven or not proven. (I do believe it does) JMHO.
Soya sauce has no aroma...go and sniff your bottle, at the back of the cupboard.
Soya beans/edamame beans, just taste like "salt"...its where MSG comes from (more or less)

johnnyboy1965
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by johnnyboy1965 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:31 pm

MSG mono sodium glutemate also known as "Chinese cooking powder"... "flavour enhancer"...Its waht gives some people major headache.
Sorry totally off OP.

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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by guypettigrew » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:15 pm

johnnyboy1965 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:23 pm
Soya sauce has no aroma...go and sniff your bottle, at the back of the cupboard.
Soya beans/edamame beans, just taste like "salt"...its where MSG comes from (more or less)
Odd, your soy sauce must be different to mine. Just sniffed a new bottle. Very definite aroma. A bit like Marmite, but much less so.

Guy

Ps Mine's certainly not at the back of the cupboard!

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Northern Brewer
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Northern Brewer » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:23 pm

Binkie Huckaback wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:12 am
Northern Brewer: The yeast was Safale S04
OK - it's not the end of the world to store dry yeast in the freezer, but you do lose a bit of a viability compared to storing it at fridge temperatures, and it ideally shouldn't be pitched directly from the freezer, let it warm up a bit first. It last for ages at fridge temperature - Fermentis guarantee 3 years kept at <10C/50F and in practice will last longer.

Binkie Huckaback
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Re: Soy Sauce

Post by Binkie Huckaback » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:53 am

That's good to know Northern Brewer. I'll move all my yeast to the fridge.

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