biotransformation's effect on taste?

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chris2012
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biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by chris2012 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:39 pm

I'm just wondering what effect biotransformation has on the taste of beer, I understand it causes
haze, but am curious does it lead to more aroma/flavour?

I'm kind of wondering, I was originally intending for this beer to be a NEIPA, but then I'm also wanting to see
the effect of my new processes in terms of clarity, so am wondering if I added the dry hops after fermentation
instead, to get a clearer beer, if the flavour would still be similar or not?

Cheers!

Edit: http://scottjanish.com/examination-of-s ... nd-flavor/ says

"The study found that yeast does in fact have the ability to transform terpenoids. Specifically, geraniol was converted into citronellol (which is described as having a sweet, rose-like, citrus and fruity aroma) and linalool was converted into terpineol (which is described as having lilac like aromas). "

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CestrIan
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by CestrIan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:19 am

Interesting article Chris. Thanks for posting.

I got a NEIPA on yesterday and was planning on dry hopping after 3 days during fermentation then a second dry hop after 7 days, bottling on day 10. I haven’t dry hopped during fermentation before. My concern is that usually when I dry hop I only ever leave the dry hops in for 4 days max because I don’t like the grassy vegetal flavours you can get from leaving pellets in too long. Have you seen any issues like this with NEIPAs?

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Jocky
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by Jocky » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:23 am

I think it just causes different fruity flavours. But it will vary yeast to yeast and hop to hop. The only way to know is to try it by taking an IPA recipe you know with a big dry hop and move it to the peak of fermentation.

I should also say that I don't think biotransformation causes haze - just dry hopping does that.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

chris2012
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by chris2012 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:55 am

Cestrian - I can't comment about dry hopping with a NEIPA, as I've not made one before this, afaid

Regarding haze, you might find this interesting, which I found the other day - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/co ... same_mash/

one was dry hopped during fermentation, the other was dry hopped after fermentation, albeit with different hop schedules

http://scottjanish.com/researching-new- ... eipa-haze/ is interesting too, as he says "One of the main variables I wanted to test in this beers is dry hopping after fermentation to see if that had an effect on clarity"

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Jocky
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by Jocky » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:08 pm

Yes, that is interesting!
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

WalesAles
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by WalesAles » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:51 pm

Jocky wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:23 am
I should also say that I don't think biotransformation causes haze - just dry hopping does that.
Jocky,
I have to pull you up on that remark.
I have a Beer with 50gr Cascade Leaf and 10gr Amarrillo pellets dry hop, made on Feb 17th,
dry hop on day 7.
It is the clearest beer ever seen by anyone! :D
I will post pics tomorrow.

WA

Gonna charge the battery on my camera now! :D

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Jocky
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by Jocky » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:22 pm

I’m not saying that you can’t have a dry hopped beer without haze (I know you can), just that the polyphenols added by dry hopping do cause haze.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Kev888
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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by Kev888 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:13 am

FWIW, my own trials with modest APAs between early and late dry hopping (in the fermenter) haven't so far shown very pronounced differences in practice. On balance I'd currently say the later dry hopping gives slightly better and stronger hop aroma in the finished beer, but both are quite acceptable. I can't detect any difference in hop flavour and both methods clear okay too, so nothing to split them there.

TBH after all the theory and hype about these things, it has been a bit disappointing not to see more obvious effects of hop/yeast biotransformations. I'm guessing therefore that it probably makes more noticeable difference in extreme styles like NEIPAs. I haven't compared those, but I don't go for hops tasting greatly of fruit or dominating the beer so would likely not be 'on message' for NEIPA fans in any case.
Kev

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Re: biotransformation's effect on taste?

Post by WalesAles » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:21 pm

Clear Beer! =D>

ImageDSCF0659 by Wales Ales, on Flickr

ImageDSCF0661 by Wales Ales, on Flickr

WA

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