Weissbier Step Mash FG

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rowyourboat
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Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by rowyourboat » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:55 pm

Moved to an all in one system recently from my old manual 3 vessel set up which has given me the option to control my mash temps better. I decided to try a stepped mash for the first time while making a weissbier - approx 50/50 wheat and pilsner malt with 300g carapils.

I programmed my controller to follow the suggested mash guidelines here: https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing- ... d-to-know/

45°C rest: 15 min
(55°C protein rest: 5 min)
63°C maltose rest: 40min
72°C saccharification rest: 30 min

Wort circulating throughout. After sparge and boil I had a post boil OG about 1.046. 20l collected in fermentor (both a bit low/short but that's a separate issue for me to figure out as I dial in the new system).

Pitched a MJ M20 wheat yeast at 21 deg C which went off like the clappers within 12 hours. Checked gravity after a week as no signs of ferment for a few days and was at 1.020. Gave it a gentle stir and pushed temp up to 23 deg c. A week later I'm still at 1.020...

The sample isn't unpleasant so although it's weaker than hoped I'd rather salvage it than pour it away.

Would I be risking bottle bombs if I bottle it?

Have I mashed out some unfermentables during the steps, or is it more likely the yeast stalled?

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Bad 'Ed
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Bad 'Ed » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:58 am

rowyourboat wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:55 pm
Would I be risking bottle bombs if I bottle it?

Have I mashed out some unfermentables during the steps, or is it more likely the yeast stalled?
Don't bottle it now.

I doubt the mash schedule will have resulted in that much unfermentable sugar. Have you tested it a second time in case you made a mistake first time round?

I've not done this before so I'm not sure what to do next. If you have S05 or something similar you could pitch that, but I would have thought weisse beer yeast would munch through things quite well.
Never enough time...

Bretty Biscuit
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Bretty Biscuit » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:46 pm

My guess is you’ve under pitched your yeast. Bang another pack in. Given your original post boil gravity of 1.046, that would require around 180BC, a shortfall of 70BC. I’m assuming you didn’t make a starter. ✌🏼

rowyourboat
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by rowyourboat » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:20 pm

Thanks both

Forgive my ignorance, what's BC?

I always use 1 packet of yeast in my 5 gallon batches and never had it stuck like this before, so especially surprised considering I came up a bit short at only 20l in the FV. It's the first time I've used the MJ M20 but from a quick google search now, it seems it might do this sometimes, as there's similar instances out there. I think i'll revert to the WB-06 for the next wheat as I have had better results from that.

I didn't do a starter but rehydrated in cooled boiled water at 35 deg before I pitched it. I thought that was better than pitching direct even where it says to sprinkle straight on the wort:
"Directly pitching dry yeast is said to kill a large portion of the viable yeast cells, leaving those that remain stressed from the extra work they have ahead of them. Stressed yeast can create unwanted flavors and aromas during the fermentation process, so it is good practice to rehydrate dry yeast before pitching into the wort."

Try another another M20 or play safe with an S04 or US05 or something?

My local shop is closed today but I'll try to get down there tomorrow and rescue this. It's been on the trub for 2 weeks, will that start to impact flavour if it has another week?

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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Bretty Biscuit » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:30 pm

rowyourboat wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:20 pm
Thanks both

Forgive my ignorance, what's BC?

I always use 1 packet of yeast in my 5 gallon batches and never had it stuck like this before, so especially surprised considering I came up a bit short at only 20l in the FV. It's the first time I've used the MJ M20 but from a quick google search now, it seems it might do this sometimes, as there's similar instances out there. I think i'll revert to the WB-06 for the next wheat as I have had better results from that.

I didn't do a starter but rehydrated in cooled boiled water at 35 deg before I pitched it. I thought that was better than pitching direct even where it says to sprinkle straight on the wort:
"Directly pitching dry yeast is said to kill a large portion of the viable yeast cells, leaving those that remain stressed from the extra work they have ahead of them. Stressed yeast can create unwanted flavors and aromas during the fermentation process, so it is good practice to rehydrate dry yeast before pitching into the wort."

Try another another M20 or play safe with an S04 or US05 or something?

My local shop is closed today but I'll try to get down there tomorrow and rescue this. It's been on the trub for 2 weeks, will that start to impact flavour if it has another week?
(BC) Billion Cells, it will be fine sitting on the trub. Stuck fermentations don’t always throw off unwanted flavours, my money is on not enough yeast. It’s worth dialling in a yeast count on your next brew, ever since I made my first starter or used more than one pack, never had an issue with stock fermentations.

rowyourboat
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by rowyourboat » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:47 pm

Thanks Bretty

I might nip to Wilko this afternoon as will struggle to get out before the weekend to my HB shop - they have "English Ale Yeast" which I believe is actually Nottingham and therefore pretty neutral...

Do you just use DME and water for a starter? 100g DME and 1l water, boiled, cooled and pitched?

Bretty Biscuit
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Bretty Biscuit » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:18 pm

A starter is based on your OG & the amount of yeast cells required to ferment out comfortably to your FG. All you need is an Erlenmeyer Flask, DME & your yeast. Use a calculator to work out how much DME you’ll need. I have a 2L flask but the bigger the better.

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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Cobnut » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:27 am

I have used MJ20 a number of times and found it would finish a bit sweet most times.

I've switched to liquid yeast for my weissbiers for more recent brews (WLP300). This ferments out better than MJ20 and gives a flavour which is more balanced - the MJ20 is quite banana dominated, with less clove.

Just bottled/kegged my latest a dunkelweiss which has gone from 1044 to 1010. I'm hoping to be able to start drinking it from the leg by the weekend :)
Fermenting: Sunshine Marmalade
Conditioning: Festbier, Helles Bock
Drinking: Smoky, lager beer, Irish Export Stout, Hazelweiss 2023:2, Cascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, and more!

rowyourboat
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by rowyourboat » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:41 pm

Thanks Cobnut, unfortunately my local HB store doesn't stock the liquid yeasts so hard to get hold of them. I've had much better luck with the WB06 dry yeast in the past.

Update on the situation in hand... pitched extra yeast on Monday and some nutrients, gave it a gentle stir anf put it back in the brew fridge at 23 deg. Took another reading tonight... still 1.020! Hydrometer was new and reads 1.000 on tap water still. I'm stumped.

Bretty Biscuit
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by Bretty Biscuit » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:02 am

Give the fermenter a good shake & swirl, get the yeast back into suspension.

rowyourboat
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Re: Weissbier Step Mash FG

Post by rowyourboat » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:56 pm

For anyone interested, this eventually got down to about 1.014 so i finally bottled it this week. Bit worried its still a little higher than I'd usually bottle, so will keep a close eye on them by means of frequent sampling.

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