Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

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Eric
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Eric » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:32 pm

Mild2.jpg
A more readable image of the most relevant part of the page, I hope.
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by McMullan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:11 pm

Silver_Is_Money wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:09 pm
I have to admit my shock at seeing the low alcohol levels of UK ales. On this side of the pond anything less than about 4.5% ABV would be almost unheard of.
Presumably, if English ale tasted as bad as American ale, we’d have to step up the OGs a tad to arrive at the same point as Americans, an hour or two later.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by McMullan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:14 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:13 pm


I'll need to think carefully of the best yeast to use in these old recipes. I've heard this Kveik stuff is pretty good .
If a traditional Norwegian spud moonshine’s the aim, I’d say use kveik. Personally, I much prefer aquavit made by professionals who know what they're doing. It makes a huge difference. Having a clue, that is. If a fantasy Norwegian ‘farm house ale’ based on blog lore is the aim - one that has you running round the local woods looking for juniper - I’d say use kveik too. At least you get to pretend you’re a Norse pirate, who couldn’t brew pot of tea.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Edd The Brew » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:42 pm

[quote=Muttonchops post_id=857131 time=1619531147 user_id=31675]
McMullen...

Great picture, by the way, I loved it!

Peebee...

You are in danger here of contradicting your own previous arguments. I did say 'let's not get caught up in semantics', but I'm now going to.

Pale Ale is a compound noun, it denotes something specific. Likewise Amber Ale. They can be preceded by an adjective further describing them, e.g. mild Pale Ale to denote a lower gravity Pale Ale that isn't matured for very long. You have previously argued in other threads that this does not make them Mild Ales, Mild Ale being a compound noun that denotes a specific type of beer (you didn't quite put it like that but that was the gist of it). I wholeheartedly agreed with this, but you now seem to be arguing against it (whether by use of the adjective 'mild' or by the 'X' ratings). Perhaps you have changed your mind; you are, of course, entitled to.

History is not a nice straight line of gradual change and improvement, it is messy and changes can be sudden, marked by disasters, wars, riots, rebellions, pandemics, technological advances and changing social/religious norms. My point is that factors before, during and just after WWI resulted on one such change, however insignificant in the grand scale of things -- Mild Ale became a compound noun denoting something specific. That clear definition of Mild Ale lasted for 65 years or so until the 1980s when Mild Ale became unfashionable and all but died out until recently. I'm old enough to remember it well, served in pubs around the country but particularly the West Midlands where it remained popular for longer. People might order a pint of Mild, or perhaps a Mild and Bitter (a 'mild' version of a Black and Tan).

'Mild Ale' (the compound noun) has a particular place in history. It almost encapsulates the socio-economic-political character of an age in a glass of dark, flavoursome, refreshing, piss-water weak liquid. If we are to resurrect it from its recent undeserved unpopularity (as is being done increasingly), perhaps we should respect that and even celebrate it.

So, why does it have to be dark? Why does it have to be <3.5%ABV (4% absolute tops)? Because that's what Mild Ale is. That, anyway, is my opinion and I'm not ready to concede yet. Your (Edd's) historic recipe from 1901 might just have been Victorian (she died on the 22nd January 1901) but even so was way too strong to be a Mild Ale. A precursor? Well, maybe.
[/quote]

There's NO SET PERAMETERS FOR ABV on ANY
Historic beer AT ANY TIME PERIOD , as far as I'm aware.
It's utterly ridiculous to state that a beer must be a Mild Ale because it's X IBU and X ABV , the predicted final Gravity must also be considered;
A beer with 1.050 OG ,28 IBU ,and finished Gravities of 1.010 and 1.006 will, be different in taste and , mouth feel .

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by themadhippy » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:06 pm

Presumably, if English ale tasted as bad as American ale,
A nice example of the ‘fallacy of incomplete evidence’. Or ‘cherry picking’ as it’s known generally comes to mind for some reason.Like everything theirs good and bad, of course your welcome to stick with john smiths,id rather have one of the many excellent american beers ive tasted over the years.
I have to admit my shock at seeing the low alcohol levels of UK ales
Uk beers used to be a lot stronger,then the government forced a reduction in strength during world war 1 and after that corporate greed took over
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:41 am

McMullan wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:14 pm
PeeBee wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:13 pm


I'll need to think carefully of the best yeast to use in these old recipes. I've heard this Kveik stuff is pretty good .
If a traditional Norwegian spud moonshine’s the aim, I’d say use kveik. Personally, I much prefer aquavit made by professionals who know what they're doing. It makes a huge difference. Having a clue, that is. If a fantasy Norwegian ‘farm house ale’ based on blog lore is the aim - one that has you running round the local woods looking for juniper - I’d say use kveik too. At least you get to pretend you’re a Norse pirate, who couldn’t brew pot of tea.
I'm impressed by your unflinching distain for the stuff. You won't miss the opportunity to take a shot even though you knew it was a wind up. Fear not, I wouldn't use kveik if it was the last thing ... scratch that, if it was the last thing available I might give it a go!

No interest in pretending to be a Norse pirate. An English (Welsh?) pirate however, that would go with my eyepatch :aarh: and I've always fancied a parrot on me shoulder. And I do avoid brewing a pot of tea; pouring hot water into a mug is hard enough, I'm not testing my aim on the tiny hole in a teapot, then juggling with the teapot lid, then repeating the hazardous pouring task to get the tea in a cup. (Don't make the mistake here of thinking I'm kidding!).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing


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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by McMullan » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:33 am

themadhippy wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:06 pm
Presumably, if English ale tasted as bad as American ale,
A nice example of the ‘fallacy of incomplete evidence’. Or ‘cherry picking’ as it’s known generally comes to mind for some reason.Like everything theirs good and bad, of course your welcome to stick with john smiths,id rather have one of the many excellent american beers ive tasted over the years.
No, it’s not cherry picking at all. It’s a valid opinion (the dominant one too given market share stats) based on personal preference driven by taste and other senses. Most people actually prefer beer to be more refined and more balanced than hop dominated American beers, which are very different. Beer is a simple beverage in reality. Ironically, the US is the biggest export market for English beers.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Trefoyl » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:26 am

PeeBee wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:41 am
An English (Welsh?) pirate however, that would go with my eyepatch :aarh:
Bad Bob should be your avatar, then
9922A331-8819-45DB-9A20-CEB265A79183.jpeg
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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by Muttonchops » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:30 pm

It's all getting a bit off-topic here.
With regards to the history of Mild Ale, I get the feeling that there will always be divided opinions on this - history as a subject is ever thus, there is no absolute truth in it. But, thanks to Eric for the interesting reference to 1863 Newcastle mild ale, I'm mulling over that one. However, it doesn't sound like a good one to resurrect!
Edd the Brewer...
"It's utterly ridiculous to state that a beer must be a Mild Ale because it's X IBU and X ABV" - I agree totally, but I don't think anyone actually said that in quite that way, but I can see that it may be interpreted that way. And whilst there were no set ABV parameters for any beer style, there were significant policy pressures during, and for a time after WWI, which had a lasting impact.
PeeBee...
Why don't you set up a new thread along the lines of 'Emulating historic brown malts with modern malts for making Porter'. That's the really interesting bit in this thread. Ben Heaven's experiments with kilning brown malt himself make a really good starting point. As Foob4ar has said, the proof of the pudding is in the flavour (well he didn't quite put it like that). I'll be watching that one with eager anticipation.

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:49 pm

Trefoyl wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:26 am
PeeBee wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:41 am
An English (Welsh?) pirate however, that would go with my eyepatch :aarh:
Bad Bob should be your avatar, then
:D
I had thought of Bad Bob but he's a bit too serious. Whereas "serious' isn't a good fit for Vince, he displays my reason for wearing an eyepatch, and you couldn't trust him with Big Bob's big gun 'cos he'd probably hold it back-to-front ... a much better caricature! P.S. the bottle I'm holding, in the caricature McMullen likes to show, actually holds dandelion-and-burdock 'cos I don't need alcohol to act "off-me-'ead" ... but don't tell McMullen that!
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:08 pm

Muttonchops wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:30 pm
... PeeBee...
Why don't you set up a new thread along the lines of 'Emulating historic brown malts with modern malts for making Porter'. That's the really interesting bit in this thread. ...
I already have. It's this one! But I have got a bit distracted with "Mild" for a few days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjBHl1qcfa0
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:10 pm

What?! It's a cat chasing a laser light. Cute, but surely not what you intended us to see!

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Re: Historic Porter's, Stouts and Milds - Brewing Methods

Post by PeeBee » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:06 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:10 pm
What?! It's a cat chasing a laser light. Cute, but surely not what you intended us to see!
"Distracted!". 'Fraid it was what I intended you to watch. You might need a twisted mind ... but as you can see, I've got competition!
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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