Dry Hopping - How much

[Bertie Doe]

On Monday I'll be starting a batch of St Austel 'Proper Job' IPA. Graham Wheeler states"adding a few hop cones to the cask after filling". Does he mean - add hops at the start of ferment or when the ferment has finished, just prior to bottling? I'm not sure what the weight of a few hop cones is.

I'll be using Cascade aroma pellets but how many grams would you use? The hops won't be sterile (ie.boiled) so is there any risk of contamination. Thanks in anticipation.

[Eric]

Proper Job is well hopped, but I have no knowledge of what St. Austel do.

Traditional British dry hopping is done after fermentation, when the cask has been filled with beer. Before being sealed with the shive, a few hop cones are added. The amount varies, but normally is just a few grams per Firkin. When tapped, a hop filter fits between the tap and the tail/barb connecting to the beer line. While hops have antibacterial properties, cask beer has a very short shelf life and there is no concern about contamination and at a typical pH of 4.0 of cask beer, most bacteria will have very limited effect.

I suspect Proper Job may be dry hopped after fermentation is complete and the yeast has been harvested for the next brew. A healthy fermentation of ale will be completed within 4 days when the hops should be added and the beer racked off the yeast and hops 3 days later would be my advice. The amount is entirely up to you.

[MashBag]

On Monday I'll be starting a batch of St Austel 'Proper Job' IPA. Graham Wheeler states"adding a few hop cones to the cask after filling". Does he mean - add hops at the start of ferment or when the ferment has finished, just prior to bottling? I'm not sure what the weight of a few hop cones is.

I'll be using Cascade aroma pellets but how many grams would you use? The hops won't be sterile (ie.boiled) so is there any risk of contamination. Thanks in anticipation.

The word "bottling" leaps out at me here.

You could ferment for 4 to 7 days then rack.
Add 10g max (assumed 23l)
Leave that for 7 days, but taste daily.
When you get the taste you want, prime and bottle.

Sterile is not a problem.

Better IMO, make a hop 'tea' in 500ml of water with 10g or 20g @ no more than 70c
Give it 30mins to combine and then strain.

Then in a glass of 100ml of the beer, use a syringe and add the tea by 1ml increments. Taste after each addition.
When you get the taste you want, do the math. Dose the batch*, prime and bottle.

*you might need to make up some more Tea, be sure to use exactly the same temp/volume & weights.

Hope that helps

[guypettigrew]

Ages ago I used to dry hop all my beers in the cask. Well, King Keg, actually!

Haven't done it for a long time, don't know why. A beer I brewed a few days ago will be ready for kegging very soon. Perhaps I'll give it a go, having read this thread. I always used about 20g of dry hops for 23L.

Guy

[Bertie Doe]

Many thanks Eric, MashBag and guypettigrew. That's certainly uncorked the mysteries of dry hopping. I use the fermentasaurus 30L All-rounder. All previous batches (4.25 Kg grain bill) have reached target of 1010 fg after 7 days.

I'm tempted to DH on day 7 with say 5gr of Cascade and bottle on day 9, assuming it's still 1010. I may try 10gr on my next batch in 30 days time. I'll update this post then.

As you say Eric "PJ is well hopped" and the combo of cascade, chinook and willamette, hits the spot. So if I can increase the hoppiness greatly, with just 5 -10gr extra, this will be a cheap fix.

[Eric]

Enzymes in hops can reinitiate fermentation if dry hopping.

[MashBag]

I thought it was just the natural sugars in them, that caused a bit of action.

[Bertie Doe]

Enzymes in hops can reinitiate fermentation if dry hopping.

Thanks Eric. In late Summer when I start batches of Paul Theakston' Regwelter, I encourage a decent head and batch prime with sugar, prior to bottling. However with my IPAs I prefer a flatter beer. Therefore I'd like to avoid any secondary ferment if possible.

Problem is - if I add aroma pellets on day 7, the fermenter pressure will zero and (I guess) I won't see any evidence on the Spund valve, of any increase in pressure on day 9 (bottling day). Perhaps I should wait longer than 2 days ? as I don't think the hydrometer, will be sensitive enough to suggest a Secondary is happening.

[Eric]

I don't know how much sugar there will be in hops, but it is hard to imagine there will be significant quantities, even in those that feel sticky. The reaction I've found has been in proportion to the beer present and not the quantity of added hops. Whether the action is on the beer, the yeast or both, I don't know. A cask of beer with added hops carbonates more quickly than one without. I add less than 5 grams of hops to a pin and less than 10 grams to a firkin and it is hard to believe there would be more than a gram of sugar in either of those quantities of hops.

Fermentation doesn't totally stop at what we commonly call primary fermentation. To stop fermentation inside a few months it is necessary to either remove or kill the yeast, or keep it chilled to a temperature at which the particular strain or strains can function. Fermentation slows significantly when the majority of easily ingested materials are consumed and yeast flocculate, but others continue to scavenge what they can, including oxygen and continue to produce alcohol and carbon dioxide. Adding a small amount of hops at this point will only serve to speed that process.

Secondary fermentation more accurately define Krausening or other processes that add new yeast when the primary yeast might have dropped out. However, few homebrewers have such facilities or go to that extent, so secondary has become an accepted definition of what is just the later stages of primary, and is inevitable whether you add dry hops or not if held at ale serving temperature. When I used to check the gravity of beers near the end of their shelf lives, often they were close to 1000.

I am unable to respond about fermentation under pressure in conical vessels. I ferment in open top cylindrical vessels with top fermenting yeasts, but not with Hardy and Hanson yeast as used at Black Sheep which I didn't find suitable.

[Bertie Doe]

I don't know how much sugar there will be in hops, but it is hard to imagine there will be significant quantities, even in those that feel sticky. The reaction I've found has been in proportion to the beer present and not the quantity of added hops. Whether the action is on the beer, the yeast or both, I don't know. A cask of beer with added hops carbonates more quickly than one without. I add less than 5 grams of hops to a pin and less than 10 grams to a firkin and it is hard to believe there would be more than a gram of sugar in either of those quantities of hops.
<snip>
I am unable to respond about fermentation under pressure in conical vessels. I ferment in open top cylindrical vessels with top fermenting yeasts, but not with Hardy and Hanson yeast as used at Black Sheep which I didn't find suitable.

Thanks, that makes sense, it looks like any secondary ferment with dry, is likely to be quite small. I'll play safe and add an extra 3 days between dry hopping and bottling. I'll report back in 3 months and post the results. Also, if I detect any exrta hoppiness in the palate.

Incidentally, someone in this forum, spotted an article in a Canadian paper, that Paul Theakston adds roasted barley to his Regwelter. I find that an extra 250 gr of roasted to Graham Wheeler's recipe, makes a significant improvement for me. I'm happy to experiment with yeasts, so what yeast would you pick, over the Hardy & Hanson, please?

[Eric]

IMG_20170221_114508743.jpg (1.25 MiB) Viewed 2304 times

The above picture was taken at Black Sheep Brewery. I'm not sure if Hardy and Hanson yeast would be practical in a conical.

This is of a recent brew with my preferred yeast when racking six and a half days after pitching. It too is better with open fermentation.

IMG_.jpg (182.61 KiB) Viewed 2304 times

I think you should choose what yeast you think works best with your fermentation vessel.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was roast barley in Riggwelter, but there can be significant difference between different maltsters. There was roast barley in the above brew, but that was home roasted.

Hardy and Hanson is HH from Brewlabs and the yeast in mine is B4.

[Nitro Jim]

I toured the Black Sheep brewery many years ago and I thought they used Yorkshire Squares.
I was impressed by the timber work especially in the roof.

[guypettigrew]

Hardy and Hanson is HH from Brewlabs and the yeast in mine is B4.

How do I find these codes, please Eric? None of the yeasts, including the East Midlands yeast supplied by Brewlab, which could well be the Hardy and Hanson strain, have any codes I can see.

Thanks.

Guy

[Eric]

I toured the Black Sheep brewery many years ago and I thought they used Yorkshire Squares.
I was impressed by the timber work especially in the roof.

Apparently they still do for some of their beers, but many changes have been made too. lack Sheep Brewery started with Hartley's (of Ulverston) mash tun, underback and copper and Yorkshire squares from Darley Brewery in Snaith. The stainless steel cylindrical vessels in the picture work on the same principle with a horizontal plate with drain holes (and a manhole for access) above the wort. Fermenting wort from the bottom is pumped and sprayed over the top of the vessel with the bulk of the yeast retained the yeast while wort drains through.

The only homebrewer I know who built and operated a true Yorkshire Square fermenting vessel is John McMullan.

Guy, I have enquired from Brewlab about certain yeasts and they have been kind enough to respond.

[clarets7]

Eric, the Darley Brewery was in Thorne, South Yorkshire. Impressive façade still standing in the centre of the town.