starting all grain brewing

[ianc]

This has probably been asked many times,,,been brewing from kits for many years and tweaking kits as well,,,would love to start all grain brewing,,so how does one start, what basic equipment is needed and does buying malt etc in the uk work out a lot more expesive than kit brewing,,,also any advice on where to buy,,,,,thanks in advance

[JamesF]

I'd certainly recommend all-grain brewing. The quality of my end-product increased significantly when I did, even when I was basically fudging it with the kit I already had (grain bag for the mash, and a hop filter made from 15mm copper tube pushed into the back of the boiler tap fitting for the boil). I began with what is now called "Brew Your Own British Real Ale" by Graham Wheeler, the first third of which covers many of the details you need to know regarding how to go about it, with recipes for well-known beers making up the rest. I think it may be out of print now, but it is possible to pick up used copies for a few pounds now and then. I still return to it regularly and in fact bought another copy recently as I've worn one out and another may not be that far behind. Others may perhaps be able to offer suggestions for books that are easier to get hold of. And of course there's lots of good advice to be had here.

I'd say that all-grain is certainly more expensive than most kits, but given that for me at least the end product tastes much better it's really a no-brainer. And it gives you the opportunity to learn much more about the process of brewing and the ingredients. For example at a basic level you can make a series of SMaSH beers, varying the type or amount of hops in each, allowing you to compare the results. Or you can try different yeast strains or mess about with adjuncts to see how they affect the final beer.

It's also worth considering whether you want to mill your own malt. I originally used pre-milled malt, then found that some of the suppliers were offering whole grain pale malts, so bought a crusher (that I drive using a cordless drill after using a crank handle for many years), and now there are places such as the Malt Miller selling a huge variety of unmilled malts.

James

[micmacmoc]

Whereabouts are you Ian? I recently switched to Grainfather system so have lots of all grain equipment I want to sell, anywhere near Cornwall?

[MashBag]

Random thoughts.

Spot on James. Buy that book. I started there too.
Having already read a lot of other books that really didn't tell me how.

Don't make it hard. Buy crushed grain, in the uk you don't need to crush your own.

You don't need a stainless anything. Plastic fermenter and 'plastic stuff' work well.

Find a warm space in your home. Constant 20c.

Work out what you budget is. BIAB (brew in a bag) works very well. And all you need is a saucepan & mashing bag. This method will get you stated and help you understand brewing.

You can opt for an all in one type beer machine, but some really are better than other. IMO I would wait, make beer, get the grin and then move up.

What do you drink?

[guypettigrew]

A useful place to look is The Malt Miller. Excellent range of stuff including all the malts, hops, equipment and sundries you could ever want!

To give you a good start with all grain you might find it best to try one of the AG kits they offer. There's a huge range. This link takes you to the ale and bitter recipe kits. There are many others.

This section on the MM site will, hopefully, give you answers to all of your questions.

Plus, the people at MM are really friendly and helpful. And no, I don't work for them!!

Have fun.

Guy

[MashBag]

Are you one the mm payroll

[LeeH]

Helpful but too expensive now IMO.

[sandimas]

Not sure if linking to another forum is permitted on here, but here goes - a great thread that got many of us started with AG
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/thre ... -ag.51779/

I did my 1st one using kitchen pans, several of them to do the mash which I stepped up to 10L (if you're gonna brew 5L then I reckon you may as well brew 10L). Best advice I can give is to jump-in and give it a try, you don't need to spend a lot of money, in fact if you have a decent stock-pot 12L or 15L you can just get a grain bag and and do a BIAB brew

Some good videos on Youtube too, especially BIAB (Brew In A Bag). You don't need to do the standard 23L brew, start with smaller ones to get the basics: brewing for 23L is a lot of grain especially when wet.

[guypettigrew]

Helpful but too expensive now IMO.

Interesting comment, Lee. Where do you buy your ingredients? Always looking to spend less, me!!

Guy

[LeeH]

Cross My Loof Citra 6.99 inc shipping

MM 10.09 plus shipping.

And that’s the first thing I checked, a very popular go to hop.

Last time I shopped about for Malt they were the most expensive.

I was loyal to one suppler years but now I shop about on every order. MM never wins.

[vacant]

Cross My Loof Citra 6.99 inc shipping

And their yeast is cheap. I'm 6 packs through a purchase of 10 and results are great.

My last order was from MM as I like the fine crush option for grain.

[JonB]

Yep, and the Crossmyloof Hops are some of the best quality I've ever used. Their range and prices are crackers (in a good way).

I get my grains, etc. From either Brupaks/The Homebrew Outlet or Get Er Brewed, though it tends to be the former 9/10 times because they're ~5 mins down the road from work...

These days I'd seriously consider an All-in-one like the Brewzilla or Grainfather. They're not far off the price of a 3-vessel system and a damn sight easier to clean and store. It's also a lot easier to do step mashes (handy if you like Belgian beers, etc.) than the classic 3-vessel system.

[Eric]

Buy what equipment you can afford. With time, all grain brewing works out cheaper than kits, if you take to it. You hear folk debating how quickly they might brew, but many do it for the pleasure and satisfaction it provides.

Don't rush, you've started well by asking for opinion. How much time and space have you? How frequently and in what quantities might you wish to brew. Suitably equipped, there's little difference in effort and time between a 10 litre brew and 100 litres, but there's no point in producing large volumes if it won't be used and often small scale equipment will still come in handy if you were to upgrade. With experience your costs will come down if that's a route you wish to take.

[vacant]

These days I'd seriously consider an All-in-one like the Brewzilla or Grainfather.

I learnt BIAB in 2008 from this info. I bought a 60 ltr bucket and immersion chiller from a homebrew shop then added a couple of kettle elements and used a net curtain and bungees to hold the grain. Couldn't be much cheaper to start off?

Wrong. I now do a lot of "no-chill" so I could have bought a 25 ltr jerrycan back then rather than an I/C.

ISTR some years ago there was talk at Bristol Brewers about getting some AG kit together to loan out free for newbies to try. Perhaps other clubs do similar.

[Cobnut]

There are many ways to make beer. Some are quick and easy, some more complex and time consuming. There are also cheaper and more costly ways to get to the same end.

As with many things in life, it comes down to the choices you make regarding the balance between what you are prepared to spend of both your time and your money.

I - like I suspect many on here - began with kits. Quick and easy, but the beer quality is not (to my mind) that great.

I then made a few beers using extract, hops and dried yeast. Initially I used liquid extract (LME), but then moved to Dried Malt Extract (DME). I found with the latter I could make some very good beers. I even won my first competition medal with a beer made with DME, some specialist grains, hops and yeast.

I then moved to a stove top method (briefly) using a 12L stock pot. I quickly learned that it ain't easy to make a 23L batch in such a pot!

Chatting to a friend (who I discovered was HBer), he put me onto the idea of using a tea boiler (Burco or similar). I bought one off ebay for £60-70 plus a grain bag. I made my own Immersion Chiller from a 10m length of 10mm copper tubing wrapped round a demi-john and some Hoselock fittings.

This set-up allowed me to easily make 23L batches and again some really nice beers resulted.

But I had a hankering for a Grainfather and when I found one for sale on Gumtree (brand new, but never used), I took the plunge. 5+ years later and 120+ beers it is still going strong.

Is the beer better with the GF? Perhaps? But maybe it is because I have become a better brewer.

As I have brewed more, entered competitions, judged at competitions, my interest in different beer styles has grown, so I brew many different styles (quaffing/session ales through to much bigger, more intensely flavoured styles. It is possible to get kits in a variety of styles and there are a range of different extracts available allowing a degree of variation in the beers which can be brewed, but AG allows the brewer to brew ANY style of beer. Modern HB suppliers stock such a vast array of different malts, hops and yeasts that we are only limited by our imaginations (and skillsets).

I buy my base malts in 25Kg sacks (works out at typically <£1/Kg which none of the HB suppliers can match), but I buy the specialist malts, hops and yeast from HB suppliers. YBH I often use MM because they are a very good supplier. I have used others and will continue to do so, but I gave up on BrewUK during COVID when their systems failed miserably - I think they have since gone under.

CML are great - I've used them for hops and yeast, but also had an AG kit from them (TBF it was a prize from a competition win) and that was great.

Bigger Jugs (whoever thought of the name deserves a medal!) I've used for some bigs of kit and one of our local HBers swears by their dried yeasts.

Get Er Brewed are good too.

Ignoring what I've spent on equipment (££££), a shed to brew in and the extra time to brew, I firmly believe that the price of a pint of AG brewed beer is lower than for a similar kit. More importantly, if you brew the beer fairly-to-very well, you will have a MUCH better beer to enjoy.