When to stop sparging - the pursuit of clearer beer.

[SiHoltye]

Just trying to eradicate potential mal-practices.

If I use sparge liquor at 85°, it probably comes out of the MT 80°ish, so if a sample from the MT tap reads SG 0.980 then that's 1.010 at 20°.

If logic sound, this may mean I might be bothered to measure this next time, and will use the figure of 0.985ish (1.015 corrected) to stop sparging.

The aim is to produce a clearer beer. This should lessen undesirables being rinsed from the grain that can impact on clarity.

Just talking to myself really, with the 'JBK Logic Checker' running in the background.

[SiHoltye]

Will do on the temp. I'll look for 0.990 at 75° (1.014 corrected)

I use 5.2 stabilizer in the MT (1tsp). I'll treat all liquor next time and see if there's a difference.

The next brew is Whitbread London Porter on Wednesday. The dark beer and long maturation won't show up clarity issues well so I'll sneek a quick maturing 1.040 amarillo pale ale in as soon as I can after, noting your points. Thanks for the advice Daab. You're the brewsters Google, need an answer....have you Daab'd it?

[SiHoltye]

I have definately sparged at 85° and not checked runnings, just sparged to volume. I will next time treat all liquor to 5.2 (it can't hurt and is easy to do), and sparge with measured 80° sparge liquor (easy again, reach 80° put lid on HLT and sparge away), measuring the run-off until corrected 1.015 reached. I'd sooner make adjustments in volume later through boiling lid coverage and possible topping up than sparge too far and add tannins I can't remove.

Also looking forward to the ATC-800 turning up to combine it with fridge and tube heater. Probably not on the next Wednesday brew, but for the next weekend one though.

I'm gonna be using 2 sachets of S-04 for the 1.061 Porter brew. The flying starter method is great, is there a better way using dried yeast in this OG brew. I'm not looking for problems, I hope anyones thoughts are no then great. It's just if consenscus says a little effort and forethought pay off then I'll do it. Would with no replies double the flying starter method to reflect the 2 x packet.

Thanks all.

[SiHoltye]

Oh, and the boil it hard hot break thing is possibly my favourite bit of the whole boil process! I can fill a 10G boiler with the foam from a 5G brew sometimes (on a darker brew). Also at Whirlfloc in time Wez mentioned once adding the 2nd element back in to increase the vigourousness of the boil which I do. Then after, the cold break is possibly also my fave bit (I'm torn) having let the hops settle the visible break material increasing in between stirs and over the 40 min cooling period is great. It's a magic part that where the proteins visibly come out of solution leaving the wort clearer. So much of brewing you don't see the benefit of immediately, creating break and rapid cooling you do however have something to say - I did that!

Waffling now, cheers for advice tonight.

[nobby]

Daab

How clear is clear?? Are we looking for crystal clear like beer we want to drink.
Just done my second mash. At first the Sparge water was coming out milky and cloudy looking. I put this back in, after a while it was coming out beer coloured but opaque.

[Vossy1]

Here's the 'product tech sheet' for PH 5.2

clicky

I encountered some issues with the wording on the side of the tub. It says to use a TBL per 5 US gallons. I read this as tablespoon or tablet, but seeming as it comes in powdered form I'll assume spoon.
I'll add to this that prior to reading the lable I was using a teaspoon as seems advocated on many forums..

However from the tech sheet it says to use 2oz (32g) per 31 US gallons.
I make this 117.335 UK litres which would equate to 0.27g/UK ltr or 6.81g for a 25 UK ltr batch or 6.27g for a 23 UK ltr batch.

It looks like the teaspoon method assuming 5g is 20% low.

[SiHoltye]

Noted, heaped tablespoon it is, thats about 20ml for my money.

[Vossy1]

The instructions clearly say add approximately 1 tablespoon of ph5.2 to the mash for every 5 gallons of water used in your brew.

Perhaps our labels are different or perhaps your idea of 'clear ' is different to mine.

TABLEspoon is usually abbreviated to TBSP, theres no clear mention of any sort of spoon on my label, just TBL

[nobby]

I am right in thinking that all you do is add the correct amount of ph5.2 and it does the rest. No need to check the ph or adjust it in other ways??

[nobby]

Thanks for that almost instant reply

[Vossy1]

Admitedly TBL could mean Tablet, Table or Tampa Bay Lighting but as there are no tablets or tables in the tub and there definately isn't a hockey team in there the logical measurement is tablespoon.

Just me being pedantic as usual

[SiHoltye]

Here's my own personal idiot list for the mash on Wednesday. Differences to previously are my attention to sparge temperature, runnings SG, and different place of use for ph5.2.

Am I using ph5.2 OK? I'm adding it to the total liquor here, not the MT grain as before.

1. Add 1 crushed campden tablet and add 30ml (2 x tablespoon) of ph5.2 to all liquor (45L) and heat to 75°C
2. Add 21L water to preheated MT @ 75°C, and dough in grain
3. Check and adjust grist if neccessary to 67°C
4. Cover and insulate for 90min rest
5. Check with tincture of Iodine for full conversion, if no then wrap up for further 15 mins
6. If conversion complete sparge with MT tap half open (for me anyway 'cos it races through otherwise) with sparge liquor at 80°, recirculate the first 6 pints or so until no husks come through
7. When runnings reach SG0.985 before adjustment or 30L boil volume reached (whichever first) stop sparging.

[SiHoltye]

Thanks Daab.

1. Add 1 crushed campden tablet to liquor (45L) and heat to 75°C
2. Add 21L water to preheated MT @ 75°C, and dough in grain:
6.37 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 79.05 %
1.25 kg Brown Malt (130.0 EBC) Grain 15.50 %
0.44 kg Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 5.46 %
mixing in one heaped tablespoon of ph5.2 (20ml-ish)
3. Check and adjust grist if neccessary to 67°C
4. Cover and insulate for 60min rest
5. Check with tincture of Iodine for full conversion, if no then wrap up for further 15 mins
6. If conversion complete sparge with sparge liquor at 80°, recirculate the first few pints until no clearly visible particulates come through
7. When runnings reach SG0.985 before adjustment or 30L boil volume reached (whichever first) stop sparging.

[Dan]

I second daabs suggestion of treating the sparge water with little CRS.

sparging can leech a lot of tannin from the malt. sparge water with a high alkalinitiy definately promotes this.

If you monitor the ph of the runoff it will give you an indicator as to when to stop sparging, It should start at 5.2 (if you have used the Ph5.2 powder) and slowly climb as you rinse through. idealy you should stop before it rises above pH5.5

by acidifying the sparge water you are reducing the amount of cabonates by changing them into carbonic acid. Also sparge water with a ph under 6 will not cause the runoff Ph to climb so quickly thus buying yourself more sparge time.

[steve_flack]

If you batch sparge then it's really hard to oversparge and extract tannins.