AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

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Lugsy

AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by Lugsy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:27 am

I've finally got the ingredients, the yeast starter is ready so I'm doing a Dunkel Weizen today. Here's the grain bill:

Pale Wheat Malt 3000g
Bohemian Pilsner Malt 1500g
Caramunich III 150g
Spaecial B 150g
Carafa Special III 66g

I've decided to do something a bit more interesting with the mash so I'm using the double decoction schedule from the Braukaiser site. Mashed in with 13 litres to get a temperature of 50C for the protein rest, after 20 minutes I drew off a thickish portion of 5.5 litres which is currently resting for ten minutes at at 72C before slowly heating to boil for 15 minutes and adding back to the mash to bring it up to 65C. Then I'll do a second decoction for mash out at 75C.

I'll do a 90 minute boil with 50g of Hallertau Hersbrucker to get 15 EBU and then cool to cellar temperature (about 17-18C at the moment) and pitch the WLP300 starter, probably quite late this evening! I think I'll get about 20 litres at 1.050 if it all goes well, colour should be 59 EBC.

It's my first decoction mash and my first starter with a reclaimed yeast so the opportunities for disaster are numerous :D

Fingers crossed with this one!

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Gricey
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Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by Gricey » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:30 pm

Sounds adventurous, good luck!
Bad Panda Brewery
Fermenting: FV1: AG#18 English IPA FV2: AG#19 Summer Dunkelweizen
Conditioning: AG#16 Chimay Reddish, AG#17 Amarillo Brillo
Maturing: AG#05 B.O.R.I.S.: Bricksh*tter Oatmeal Russian Imperial Stout - ready 01/10/11, AG#07 Monkey Shot! IAPA - ready 16/06/11 maybe
Drinking: AG#11, AG#14, AG#15
Planning: AG#20 Summer Hefeweisen, AG#21 Saison Brettre, AG#22 Simcoe Poisoning Red IPA, AG#23 Oatmeal Stout

Birdman

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by Birdman » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:17 pm

How did it go? Is it still going?

Never tried a decoction, but it looks fun. Does sound like it would add a good two hours to a brewday though

leedsbrew

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by leedsbrew » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:27 pm

nice one fella! I've only ever done a single decoction and that added a good chunk of time to the brew day! How did you find the double?

Lugsy

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by Lugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:14 am

Well I think everything went pretty well - the decoction volumes were pretty much spot on for the temperature rises I wanted, this is a good simple schedule (50C, 66C, 75C) as you have to boil up a third of the mash each time so the calculations are easy. I did find that as it was such an extended mash (best part of four hours!) I lost quite a bit of heat and had to do a small top up with boiling water for each step to hit the temperatures exactly.

I did a single sparge and got 18.5 litres in my pot (nearly up to the rim), that gave me 14 litres at 1.078 into the fermenter so I topped up with 7 litres of cold water to give me 21 litres at about 1.051 so the efficiency was excellent, something like 75% I think. My last wheat beer was about 70% so the decoction certainly seemed to work.

My plan was to do a second sparge and boil that separately but time ran out and so I've got about 5 litres of unboiled wort (1.025) in a pan at the moment. I can either boil it after work today and add it to the fermenter or leave it to sour for a couple of days before boiling it and then adding it. I've never done this before and I'm not sure if it would be appropriate for the beer I'm making, anyone have any thoughts on this?

Overall a good brewday, I'll definitely do a decoction again for a wheat beer but next time maybe start a couple of hours earlier!

Cheers,

L

simco999

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by simco999 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:20 am

Sounds good - I've only done one decoction - takes a lot longer than usual. Smells fab though.

greenxpaddy

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by greenxpaddy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:17 pm

Hey Lugsy. I'm really glad to see some decoction mashing going on. I have scheduled to try it in the next few months. Its going to require me to buy a relatively large stock pot and I have been playing about with a few numbers to work out how much capacity I'll need. Could you or anyone else check these numbers and the exact method to make sure I've understood it correctly?

Based upon 8.5kg grain, 24L liquor, 'high wheat' grain bill. i.e. second rest at 50C.

1. Warm mash tun with hot liquor to 38C. Dough in grain to strike at 35C. Rest for 20 mins.
2. Extract 6.82 litres of thick mash (from Brewzor Calculator) plus 10% = 7.5L. Heat slowly and then boil for 10-40 mins depending on style.
3. Add back into MT in stages mixing well, until 50C temperature reached. If temp reached before all decoction re-added wait for the remainder to cool to 50C before adding back in.
4. Rest for 20 mins.
5. Extract 9.45 litres of thick mash (from Brewzor Calculator) plus 10% = 10.4L. Heat slowly and then boil for 10-40 mins depending on style.
6. Add back into MT in stages mixing well, until 66C temperature reached. If temp reached before all decoction re-added wait for the remainder to cool to 66C before adding back in.
7. Rest for 45 mins.
8. Extract 7.82 litres of thick mash (from Brewzor Calculator) plus 10% = 8.6L. Heat slowly and then boil for 10-40 mins depending on style.
9. Add back into MT in stages mixing well, until 75C temperature reached. If temp reached before all decoction re-added wait for the remainder to cool to 75C before adding back in.
10. Sparge out with liquor maintaining 75C

So it looks like I'd need a 15L stockpot?

simco999

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by simco999 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:36 pm

Looks like you have done your research - I'm no expert so I won't comment. But it sounds right (ok I commented).

That will take some time - let us know if it was worth it!!

Good luck.

greenxpaddy

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by greenxpaddy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:44 pm

Cheers

Does anyone know whether to avoid aluminium pots?

Lugsy

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by Lugsy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:24 pm

Hi paddy

I looked at the Brewzor calculator first but to be honest I was feeling a bit lazy and couldn't be bothered to do the conversion from metric to American units and I thought I'd stuff it up and get confused with our gallons and their gallons! I used the Braukaiser schedules and calculations you can find here. I went with the double decoction just because it sounded the easiest, the temperature steps meant that I just had to take 6 litres from my 18 litre mash for each step (plus a bit to account for heat losses during the mash). The simple calculation for volumes is:

decoction volume = total mash volume * (target temp - start temp) / (boil temp - start temp)

Your numbers look pretty much OK to me but I'm not exactly an expert and I've had a couple of beers this evening so I could be wrong! The boil I did was a very slow simmer with a thickish portion so you could get away with a pan just over 10 litres for your biggest decoction.

A triple decoction will take you a while, probably over four hours, it's a long process and LOTS of stirring. I kept the lid on my pot and used a low heat so I didn't have to stir continuously but even so it's a good bit of work. It does seem to make a noticeable difference to your efficiency with wheat and it smells good too!

As for aluminium pots I have no idea, most of me thinks that they would react with acidic wort and release a fair bit of aluminium into your beer but on the plus side they'd probably come up nice and shiny for a bit!

greenxpaddy

Re: AG#15 Dunkel Weizen

Post by greenxpaddy » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:38 pm

Just on the brewzor calculator I haven't found it online ironically but the application for my phone 'Brewzor Calculator BETA' version is awesome. Its free on the ZTE Blade I am using. And it does metric. There isn't a beer brewing calculation that isn't on it.

Highly recommended

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