Brewday 14/08/08 - Kolsch

[steve_flack]

Who said anything about decoction. I've done decoctions and frankly it's easier to buy your melanoidins in a bag (cereal mashes are a different kettle of fish altogether). If I was going to do a step I'd just add boiling water.

[maxashton]

I thought that's what decoction mashing was. The temperature steps. I am evidently misinformed .

This guy is advocating pulling a load of grist out of the tun and boiling it, then tossing it back toward the end of the mash. I wonder how much this would damage the diastatic power of the mash.

[steve_flack]

The trad way of doing steps was to do decoctions - it had advantages when your grain wasn't well modified. These days it's pretty difficult to find poorly modified malt and if all you're after is the different rest temps you can just add boiling water or directly heat the mash. You do have to be careful doing this as there is a risk of scorching the mash. In big breweries they'd most likely use steam injection to do the steps.

[maxashton]

Ahh right. I've added boiling water to the mash before to raise a too-cold mash up. Thought i'd wrecked the beer as it tasted watery after the ferment.

I guess steam injection is outside of the scope of us homebrewers, eh?

[steve_flack]

The wateryness is probably due more to the too-cold mash than it is to the amount of water in the mash tun. German mashes are often a lot looser than ours and they don't seem to have a problem.

[maxashton]

I was more thinking that i'd scorched the malt somehow. I've never actually scorched the malt, so i didn't know what to expect flavour wise. In fact, the beer matured to be a wonderful summer ale!

[mysterio]

Do you find the continental pilsner a lot different to the UK lager malt? I've got two sacks of it to play with. I'm thinking of doing a step mash with it (15 minutes at 50C) before stepping up to the sacc rest - any thoughts?

Yeah I do, it's double the price for a start

I dont know about flavour differences, i've got some UK lager malt to try out soon in a cream ale and i'll see if I can notice anything.

I would say leave the protein rest for the continental pils. I've made perfectly clear beer with a single infusion, even though it looks like milk when it's going into the kettle. Whirlfloc and rapid chilling works fine, and a bit of lagering doesnt hurt either. The picture of the wort in the first photo was without a 50C rest and it's clear enough.

Max, I did a decoction on the last wheat beer I made. It was fun, it wasn't as much trouble as I thought, but i'm not 100% sure it made much difference to the beer

[maxashton]

Apparently it has dramatic effects on maltiness. BYO seem to think so anyway. I'd like to try it.

[steve_flack]

I would say leave the protein rest for the continental pils. I've made perfectly clear beer with a single infusion, even though it looks like milk when it's going into the kettle. Whirlfloc and rapid chilling works fine, and a bit of lagering doesnt hurt either. The picture of the wort in the first photo was without a 50C rest and it's clear enough.

It is a nice clear wort but from what I've read (which of course may or may not be true), one of the reasons for doing a short protein rest is so that rather than ending up as sludge in your kettle, the proteins get snipped into smaller pieces which survive the boil and make it into the final beer and improve head retention there. Of course you could overdo it and really knacker your head retention if you rest too long.

[steve_flack]

Apparently it has dramatic effects on maltiness.

So does adding Munich or Melanoidin malt.

[mysterio]

Apparently it has dramatic effects on maltiness. BYO seem to think so anyway. I'd like to try it.

I think Aleman has done a triple decoction on his Bo Pils, ask him.

The trick is to only remove a third of the mash, and only the thick portion so that the majority of the enzymes remain in the main mash. Boil it anywhere between 15 & 40 minutes depending on how intense you want the maltiness to be. Don't, whatever you do, scorch the decoction... stir at all times.

one of the reasons for doing a short protein rest is so that rather than ending up as sludge in your kettle, the proteins get snipped into smaller pieces which survive the boil and make it into the final beer and improve head retention there.

Interesting... might give it a go in my next batch.

[maxashton]

If it's good enough for you, Steve, i will give it a go next time i do a malty brew. I find myself shamelessly poaching your ideas.

Edit: I say i'd like to try it, but will probably not bother due to effort involved. If i can use melanoidin malt or Munich to get almost the same or the same effect, I'll do that.

[johnh]

... the proteins get snipped into smaller pieces which survive the boil and make it into the final beer and improve head retention there. Of course you could overdo it and really knacker your head retention if you rest too long.

How long is too long, Steve? I've tried a 20 minute protein rest on a Witbier I did and the head was definitely knackered. Getting consistent head retention seems to be a black art to me.

Boil it anywhere between 15 & 40 minutes depending on how intense you want the maltiness to be.

Why does boiling the grains, husks and all, in this way not extract tannins whereas sparging above 80C does?

[steve_flack]

I tried a 20 minute protein rest on a Witbier I did and the head was definitely knackered. Getting consistent head retention seems to be a black art to me.

That's the $64,000 question...how long.

[maxashton]

Why does boiling the grains, husks and all, in this way not extract tannins whereas sparging above 80C does?

Perhaps not enough water in the mash to extract a significant ammount of tannins?