Brewday 19/08/08 - Flanders Red Ale

[johnh]

How will you ferment this mysterio? You said before that you might try the wooden stopper method.

I have an experiment underway (since about april) conditioning a soured standard porter in various different ways. I did a gallon mini-mash and fermented it in an open demi with a tablespoon of unboiled grains. Then I racked it into 4 bottles one glass under airlock, one glass with a wooden stopper, one plastic under airlock and one with a loose top which I ventilate every so often. Here's a pic...



The one I've been tasting went quite lactic sour before obviously turning stale, I'll still leave it for the full 12 months to compare. I'm not expecting to be able to drink much of any of this but I hope to be able to compare the results and maybe possibly blend them in small quantities. Worth a try I thought if only out of curiosity.

[mysterio]

Great experiment! Are you noticing any acetic/vinegar character in any of them?

I'm just going to ferment it in glass under an airlock (in fact, I've lost my carboy cap so it's tin foil at the moment). I was going to see if I could source an oak peg but I don't have the time to be fishing around for one at the moment... i'm going to keep an eye out for one over the next few weeks though. At least time is on my side.

I'm going to get my first Lambic underway in a couple of months too, if my aged hops are ready. I might take a sample from the Flanders red to innoculate it, or maybe some of the oak chips (Brettanomyces likes to live in oak, I think).

[johnh]

Great experiment! Are you noticing any acetic/vinegar character in any of them?

Not much. That's either because no acetobacter got in or because it kicks in later. As I understand it the lactic becomes apparent first, followed by acetic followed by brett. If I was going to do the experiment again I'd add a ml of live vinegar to the batch just to be sure. That's the advantage of the proprietory culture: you know you'll get the right contaminants!

Brettanomyces likes to live in oak, I think.

Didn't the Vikings have a beer stick as a family heirloom which harboured yeast from batch to batch...or is that just another fairy tale.

[mysterio]

I racked this today, ready for a years storage. I ended up pitching some WLP001 because there was no signs of fermentation 24h after pitching the bugs. It kicked off shortly after.

Some really funky flavours going on, some good and some not so good but that's to be expected. Some good sourness & red wine aromas. Also some medicinal, 'band-aid' type aroma (4-ethylphenol) which I think is the Brettanomyces kicking in. Hopefully that will clear up.

I'm wondering if I can take a sample of this to innoculate another batch of beer, like an oud bruin or something, any thoughts folks?

[mysterio]

Cool pellicle developing on top of the beer, take a look:

[Barley Water]

I have no experience with the kind of bugs you are playing with but I would be very reticent to use the first beer to get the second one going. Since you have to wait so long to see how things work out, I would use fresh yeast and bugs just in case the first batch went south on you. That way, your chances are higher to get at least one good batch (and if you are lucky, both will be fantastic).

One of these days I will get the nerve to start playing with soured beers. I am just so afraid that I will end up getting an infection started that will ruin all the other brews I make. I do however love a challenge so I am sure that one day I will make the leap to the "dark side". Good luck, I will be interested to hear how it all works out.

[oblivious]

Looks great mysterio, keep us posted on how it goes

[mysterio]

1 month until I can start thinking about kegging this up! I had more or less forgot about it

I'm not sure but the pellicle seems to be subsiding slightly.

OK, quick straw poll - who thinks i've made some botulism ridden balsamic vinegar and who thinks i've made something drinkable ? And who is going to volunteer to try a bottle?

[steve_flack]

I'd be up for a taste - I like Flanders red ales so I know what I'm getting. Are you expecting something like Grand Cru or more of a blended Rodenbach sort of flavour?

[mysterio]

Well, the procedure I followed in the book is for the Grand Cru version. He says to make the same recipe with California ale yeast and blend to make the less sour version. I may do this, depending on how sour it turns out. I really like the Grand Cru personally, so if it turns out like that, i'll be delighted. If it is garbage though, I will just drain it.

I like Flanders red ales so I know what I'm getting.

No pressure then

I'll send over a bottle when its ready (if I think it's any good).

[196osh]

Id be up for a swap or something,

[simple one]

My votes on "just" drinkable. Good luck misty, and all those that sup his "funky juice"!

[Barley Water]

I did an Oud Bruin in April so I have quite some time to wait before it gets done (it's my first try so I really don't know what the hell I'm doing). I let mine sit in a carboy with a regular fermentation lock for a couple of months then ran it into a keg (which I flushed with CO2 since I wasn't looking for any acetic flavors). Anyway, have you considered doing some blending? My thought was to try and get the most milage possible out of a year old beer by mixing the sour stuff with some sweet young brown ale, in my case, I am trying for the sweet/sour combination. According to the research I have done, that is what the guys do over in Belgium and I gather blending is an art form all unto itself. With whatever is left over from blending, I plan to add sour cherries to it and then let it sit around for another 6 months or so.

Like a few of you guys have said, 5 gallons is alot of this style of beer so I plan to bottle the entire batch so I can age it even more in the bottles. I can handle a bottle once in a while but I don't see myself drinking stuff like this night after night. I have been collecting Belgian 750cc bottles and I have the wire cages and corks so bottling highly carbonated stuff is taken care of.

[mysterio]

Yeah, definately planning on blending, BW. The plan is to taste in a glass, and work out what proportion of it I need to make 5 gallons of blended beer, and bottle the rest as an unblended version. This is all assuming it doesn't taste like wasp remains. Actually, I think i'll draw out a sample of this beer tonight and see where its heading.

[mysterio]

Just took a sample there, totally [censored] it up but managed to get a little bit of beer. Have to say it tastes surprisingly similar to rodenbach grand cru, only off flavour is a veeery slight medicinal character. This flavour was pretty intense when the beer was young, I think its something that the yeast/bugs are clearing up.