English Ale - 1st time using Danstar Windsor. Advice Please!

[stokie_spaceman]

Hi Floyd. I'm roughly following your recipe and technique. I'm interested as to whether you kegged it with gelatine or put the gelatine into seconday and waited a couple of days before kegging. Also, I'm controlling the primary temp to 19 deg C with the FV in a bucket with aquarium heater. Question is what do you reckon to maintaining the temperature during seconday? Will be about 15 deg C average otherwise but seeing as the secondary is dry hopping and letting yeast drop out, will it make a difference? Going for 12-14 says primary and 7 days secondary...or that's the plan anyway. Currently at 7 days primary.
I mashed low 63-64 deg C on this one and used a little invert sugar to try to reduce the FG to 1.012-1.013 range.

Cheers

Joe

[floydmeddler]

Sorry, just seeing this.

I kegged from primary then added the gelatine a week later. Idea was to allow most to drop out itself then the gelatine could get to work on the problematic haze that hangs around. Not sure if this makes much difference though. Plan to gelatine while kegging with my next brew to see if there's a difference in clarity down the line.

With this yeast, I ferment at 18c for 3 weeks with the dry hops added for the last 5 days. You'll want to keep it at 18c or even crank it up to 20c when the dry hops are added so that they can release their flavours. 15c isn't a good dry hopping temp. Discovered this the hard way recently.

Good mash temp. I reckon you'll end up in your desired range with the sugar addition. 1.014 is, perhaps, a little high... even for a sweet tooth like me!

Really glad you've given this yeast a go. The beer won't be ready for drinking until around 5 - 6 weeks after brew day. I've ALWAYS found that it tastes like green apple skins up until this point. Wonders of Windsor!

Sorry again for the delay. Keep us posted and updated!

[stokie_spaceman]

Well, it's 13 days since I pitched the Windsor and I've just measured the FG as 1.015 temperature corrected. Slightly surprised given the mash temp and invert sugar inclusion but it is what it is. At least it didn't get stuck at a higher value. It's been pretty inactive for the last 6 days or so. I turned the aquarium heater off two days ago to allow it to cool down and hopefully drop some more yeast. Now at 15 deg C. I was going to transfer to secondary for dry hopping but instead will dry hop in the FV in a muslin ba,g weighted but suspended so as not to disturb the yeast on the bottom, and pop the heater back on as suggested. Certainly some interesting aromas...quite different from Norttingham and really quite pleasant. Will update on kegging in the week.

[floydmeddler]

Quite surprised at the FG. Thought it would be lower. It's pretty sensitive to temp I've learnt. Hopefully you won't find it too sweet. In an ideal world, it will drop 2 or 3 more points over the next week or so. I'd rouse the yeast just to be sure it has finished up its work...

[Hobbins]

I've only used this once on a Porter. Couldn't get it to go under 1.020. Nice tasting beer though. As states above a furious start to fermenting and stops just as suddenly.

[seymour]

I think Windsor is the perfect candidate for dual-strain fermentation experiments, along the lines of Adnams and Marstons among many, many other popular English breweries. Windsor locks-in some really cool, distinctly English flavours and aromas, but it needs help with the heavy-lifting. If you want this particular profile but a higher-attenuated, thinner-bodied, more alcoholic finished beer, by all means you could pitch it with another cheap pack of S-04, Muntons, Coopers, Youngs, etc. You get the idea.

I'll say it again: single-strain fermentation is overrated (and a very recent phenomenon in the grand scheme of things.)

[floydmeddler]

Some interesting ideas there Seymour. definitely worth exploring in the future.

Yes, Windsor is distinctly English. When I first tried it I thought wow! There's that elusive taste I've been after in my English ales. Almost woody in taste. Absolutely love it and find it sad that most brewers don't get along with it. Some people mash everything at 66c/67c then blame the yeast for everything.

I'm doing a treacle porter with Windsor soon. Plan on mashing at the 58c-60c mark. Can't wait.

[super_simian]

I think Windsor is the perfect candidate for dual-strain fermentation experiments, along the lines of Adnams and Marstons among many, many other popular English breweries.

One of the best dry-yeast ales I've done was 19L, with an 11g pack of Windsor (rehydrated) and a 7g pack of Coopers Ale (unhydrated) fermented at 19C. Seriously lovely esters and flavour, approx. 76% AA and solid flocculation. But repitching gave me straight Coopers (which isn't a bad thing in the right beer, but i wanted to repeat the original experience.) The difference in hydration was to try and give the Windsor a head start on the Coopers without re-opening the FV after pitching.

[seymour]

I'm glad to hear it worked for you, too. I did the same with Windsor and Munton's Active Dry Yeast. I'd say "best of both worlds" but in fact, I think the result was better by far than either of them alone.

[jonnyt]

I'm glad to hear it worked for you, too. I did the same with Windsor and Munton's Active Dry Yeast. I'd say "best of both worlds" but in fact, I think the result was better by far than either of them alone.

Would Windsor work in a Landlord Clone recipe as a cheap alternative to 1469?

[seymour]

Would Windsor work in a Landlord Clone recipe as a cheap alternative to 1469?

Windsor would almost certainly produce a tasty beer from a Landlord recipe, but I'm pretty sure the TTL yeast strain attenuates substantially better, finishes much drier, and flocculates better, right? If you agree, it would seem something like S-04, Coopers, Youngs would be a better cheap, dry alternative. Nottingham would probably go too far the other way.

[jonnyt]

I've made it with Notty several times, tried a few variations and never got close.

I'll give the 1469 a try

[stokie_spaceman]

Well, a couple of days late, but I've just kegged it. It's the dirtiest looking beer I've ever kegged. To say this yeast is non flocculent seems an
understatement. It's like someone melted cheese in it...then added some gravy. Interestingly, it looked as though it had begun fermenting again which I find really worrying. It had some foamy yeast on top which wasn't there a few days ago. This can only have happened in the last couple of days.

I checked the gravity again and it appears to have dropped since I dry hopped it last week, from 1.015 to about 1.013, as Floyd suggested it might.
Tastewise, purely for quality control reasons you understand, it's really quite nice and reminds me of something I've had before. Not appley or sharp but does have an interesting flavour, but not estery at all. If I can get it to clear, this could be really nice. Not particularly sweet either which is surprising with all that yeast in suspension.

I've kegged it with gelatine, which from my limited experience is not good for clearing yeast but a least it will take the chunks out. Could take a while!!!
The yeast at the bottom of the fermenter was very loose and runny. Nothing like the thick goo you get with nottingham. In fact, just tilting the FV when syphoning disturbed it. Fingers crossed, I'll update when it clears

Joe

[floydmeddler]

Yep, it's a dusty b*stard of a yeast. Those flavours you're getting will mellow. I find that Windsor throws up big green apple skin flavours for the first 3-4 weeks. I don't drink it until it's 5 weeks old.

The gelatine should clear it. It always has for me. I use 12g of gelatine. I soak it in 150ml cold beer for 10 mins then bring to 75c and allow it to sit for 15 mins. Then I add it. Don't even cool it.

Glad it fell to 1.013 for you. Should be a full bodied and malty beer. Keep us posted.

[stokie_spaceman]

I need to say this is the second time I have posted this. The first time, I left it too long before submitting and it vanished when my computer hibernated. . I've had a couple of beers since!!

The beer has dropped crystal clear in about 4 1/2 weeks! Really soft mouthfeel, slightly fruity but less sweet than expected even at 1.013 SG when i kegged it. I had to check the gravity again and it's now 1.010 !!! Is this a record for windsor?? Somebody else posted that windsor chugs away for a long time and I totally agree. I did mash low (63 deg C), used 3% home made invert syrup and carfully controlled ferment temp to about 19 deg C. Took it's time getting down considering it was 1.015 after 2 weeks primary, 1.013 after a further week in secondary (with dry hops) and now 1.010 after a further 4.5 weeks in the keg. A slow burner I guess.

This is a really good beer. Highly carbonated but in a big soft white pillow head sort of way.

I tried it at just under 4 weeks and it was quite hazy but frankly tasted like a belgium beer. I thought if this is the best it gets it's bloody nice. Totally unlike nottingham yeast haze which i dislike even when it's slight.

Can't fault you Floyd. It's excellent and has behaved as you predicted. I will use this yeast again..arguably my best beer as the flavour is certainly more interesting than nottingham. I followed the recipe you posted (plus invert) although my hops are marginally different. Tried to match the IBU's though.

The best bit is, it's ready to drink and we have the final day of the six nations in a couple of days time....oh yes!!!!

If only i could get the gravity up a bit.........

Thank you all for your help and comments.

Cheers

Joe