Late Hopping Experiment (hot)

[jonnyt]

Thats assuming that the experiment is repeated under laboratory conditions.
The data set is so small it's statistically irrelevant and thus no more worthy than anyone's opinion without a test.
i.e. The results bare little resemblance to fact.

[Dr. Dextrin]

Thats assuming that the experiment is repeated under laboratory conditions.
The data set is so small it's statistically irrelevant and thus no more worthy than anyone's opinion without a test.
i.e. The results bare little resemblance to fact.

Actually, I think most of us are interested in what happens under typical home brewing conditions rather than in a laboratory. The theory was that under these conditions, if the wort wasn't cooled, you wouldn't get as much aroma. It's not a statistical effect. The theory doesn't say that 6 times out of ten you'd get less aroma. You'd expect it to happen every single time you tried it.

But in this experiment you actually got more aroma from boiling the hops in the wort. So if you want to argue with the result, I think you have to criticise the experimental technique. Someone else repeating the experiment would be the best way to establish whether it is sound. But statistics and laboratories have nothing to do with it.

[gnutz2]

Thats assuming that the experiment is repeated under laboratory conditions.
The data set is so small it's statistically irrelevant and thus no more worthy than anyone's opinion without a test.
i.e. The results bare little resemblance to fact.

You heard it here first, jonnyt's gonna duplicate the experiment under lab conditions, if only more forum members were as committed to the cause as you jonny.

[jonnyt]

No, I simply suggest that the findings are very subjective at best and shouldn't be treated as gospel.

So in my view DYOR and use what works for you.

[Manx Guy]

Great work. So it looks like the theory that the aroma (& flavour) will get driven off if the wort isn't cooled first doesn't seem to fit the facts.

You should get a job with Myth Busters.

Yes very interesting...

Does this suggest that the stirring and trying to get the hop oils dissolved in the beer helps?

I'veoften read that due to our small volumes the contact the hops have with the wort in different to that on commercial scales. THe suggestion is we on a homebrew scale tend to use more hops for a similar effect than a micro on a 5 BBL setup when the average homebrew set up is 5-10gallon?

I'm going to brew two TTL clones which will be identical apart from one with a 5min addition stirred and one with a 5 min addition and the lid partially covering the brew AFTER the addiditon and during cooling.

Just to see how this works in my own set up.


Cheers!

Guy

[Lugsy]

Excellent experimentation, well done SO!

Makes me glad I went with the 5 minute addition in my last brew instead of flame out or 80C steep.

As far as the subjectivity of results go, I believe we're talking about perceived sensation so I think you'd be hard pushed to get an objective result with this type of experiment. But that's just my opinion

[swiggingpig]

Thanks for taking the time to do the research and post up the results, very interesting reading.

I'll also be trying the 5min version to see how it works with my set up cheers

[simple one]

As far as the subjectivity of results go, I believe we're talking about perceived sensation so I think you'd be hard pushed to get an objective result with this type of experiment. But that's just my opinion

No, I simply suggest that the findings are very subjective at best and shouldn't be treated as gospel.
So in my view DYOR and use what works for you.

I totally agree. The results table are an average of everyones findings. With the conclusions being from my perspective, from my own tastings. My personal tastes don't agree with the average results, as I have stated in the write up. I sort of understood peoples perceptions of taste and aroma would differ, but not there perception of intensity, and in some cases wildly away from the average results. After judging I sometimes got the opportunity to sit and drink the same samples with them and chat through the samples, only then understanding how drastically different peoples palates can be.

It is very subjective. Luckily those that got to taste and judge, could compare for themselves and take away a personal perspective. For those that didn't you can get a gist of the average. It might be correct to you, but then again it might not be, and then again some of us don't only brew for our own tastes. But it would a bit boring and and maybe selfish not to share findings with other homebrewers.

[floydmeddler]

This is something I've always wanted to do but knew i'd probably never do it. Thanks!!

[floydmeddler]

Reckon I'll do a 5 min addition soon. Maybe 100g at the last 5 mins then chill down to 80 and allow to steep for 30 mins...

Really interesting. Thanks again.

[simple one]

Oh and before I forget, I have saved a set of bottles for aging to see what methods hold up.

(as tasted by me, your experience may vary)

[jaroporter]

I have saved a set of bottles for aging to see what methods hold up.

top science that man! you've thought of everything

really interesting experiment. i've generally stopped FO additions and steeping in favour of more at 10/5 minutes in hoppy beers to get more flavour out of them, knowing that i'm gonna dryhop to hell for aroma anyways. of course the steep may give slightly different aromas and flavours but i'm not really one for subtlety (yet!) in these matters..

[Jocky]

Good work, very interesting. While others might be calling this subjective, in science there is no such thing as proof, merely evidence.

Quick question: what do you do to filter your wort after letting it settle?

[dcq1974]

Nice experiment

As a flavour chemist your findings are not surprising. Some of the tasting panel maybe super tasters where bitterness or sweetness etc. is concerned. Others may be anosmic (smell or taste blind) to certain componets but not others!

As an example the flavour chemical gamma-Decalactone (which has a fruity peach character with a sweet creamy backnote and occurs in peach, apricot, blue cheese, butter, guava, mango, strawberry, tea, wine and beer among many many other foods) cannot be perceived by some people (IIRC but don't quote me on it could be as high as 20% of the population is estimated to not be able to smell this material).

Intersting stuff

[simple one]

Cheers gents.

Quick question: what do you do to filter your wort after letting it settle?

I strain off using the bittering hops and a hop strainer. So crystal in to a holding tank. Then with each different method I conduct the heating, addition and cooling in a smaller boiler. Which is then strained using another hop filter. The only one which can be done by this method is the 'no hop' which has the cold break go through to the FV.