Seymour Chocolate Milk Stout

[seymour]

This sounds great...

Thanks.

...Sorry about all questions below...
When you let the mash tun 'ripen' was it closed or open to the elements?...

I left it closed-tight. I wasn't actually trying to capture new "bugs" at this stage, I already had the ones I wanted, I was just letting the grains ripen a little bit, just like making sourdough bread, Malian maafe, Ethiopian injera, etc. Oh, and lest I sound too pompous, it was also a function of my downright laziness, not wanting to clean-up for a couple days. Win-win!

...Would there be any chance of this ripening malt resulting in a permanent 'infection' of wild yeasts / lactobacillus in a cool-box mash tun?...

I really don't think so. Nothing that a weak bleach or iodine solution and/or oxygenated cleanser and "good ol' elbow-grease" won't knock-out. I don't even use any heavy-duty chemical cleansers, but I suppose you could. If nothing else, it'll motivate you to scrub extra well afterwards, just in case.

As usual, I want to encourage homebrewers not to hold-back, not to take things too seriously. I know cleanliness and sanitation are important, especially when introducing non-standard brewer's yeasts to your kit, but here's another valid point: what comes out of your mash/lauter tun gets boiled for 60-90 minutes anyway, right? Believe me, there's nothing growing there which can survive that.

...Any idea what % of sugar was from the added 2 lbs golden brown cane sugar?
I assume the cane-sugar formed the majority of the sugars in the brew. With highly fermentable wort mainly simple sugars and a zoo of microorganisms, I'm not suprosed you got 98% attenuation..

I dunno, it's not an exact science. But, according to my sloppy calculations: 2 lbs of golden brown sugar in a 3 gallon batch would only produce a wort around 1.030, and 1°SRM/2°EBC colour, right? Here's a picture of my resulting beer, which had an OG of 1.048 and coloured around 18°SRM/36°EBC, so the other sugar and colour must've come from somewhere.

[jmc]

Thanks Seymour.

I'm tempted to try this with the remains of a toasted oatmeal stout.

[seymour]

Thanks Seymour. I'm tempted to try this with the remains of a teasted oatmeal stout.

Good idea, go for it. If you're nervous about using the regular kit you're emotionally connected to, just get a cheap plastic paint bucket or big water bottle or something, a short length of tubing you can throw-away, etc. It's all one big fun learning process, if nothing else. If you hate it and end up dumping it, no big deal.

[jmc]

And now for something truly different:

I've been experimenting lately with making sour small beers from my spent-grains. I mean, why not? It's being disposed either way. This time, I let my spent Chocolate Milk Stout mash tun "ripen" for three days. Reminder: it contained a small percentage of aciduated malt to hasten the souring. I then added a few hops to the mash tun, sparged again with 3 US gallons (11.3 L), stirred-in 2 lbs golden brown cane sugar to OG 1.048. No boil.

Finally--and this is the really crazy part--I pitched dregs from a mate's delicious wild fermented beer, plus dregs from my seriously sour Imperial Berliner Weiss, plus a wild yeast I cultured from Bulgarian juniper berries, plus a small Duvel bottle culture. It's a whole zoo of microorganisms, but I'm very excited to taste this experiment in a month or so.

I'm going to try this out with spent grain from a Toasted Oatmeal Stout I started on Saturday.

I've left the sparged grains in sealed mashtun. Unfortunately brewing garage is about 8c so not ideal for ripening.

Should I add some unmashed grain to up the lactobacillus?

Oh and how much hops do you suggest to add? TIA ATB John

[seymour]

As far as adding unmashed grain, you certainly could, that would be similar to a Berliner Weiss technique. I repitched my yeast blend which already contains lactobacillus, so I skipped that particular step. I've also successfully gotten acidophilous from sauerkraut and yogurt. Probiotic pills are pretty trendy at health food stores in the USA, I don't know about over there. If so, they are very good for your overall digestive health, allergies, etc, and a great source for brewers too.

As far as hops, that's entirely up to you. I just added a little leftover bag I had handy in the mash tun. I didn't boil, but if you do, feel free to add as you would any Belgian Wit, for instance.

[jmc]

As far as adding unmashed grain, you certainly could, that would be similar to a Berliner Weiss technique. I rep itched my yeast blend which contains lactobacillus, so I skipped that particular step. I've also successfully gotten acidophilous from sauerkraut and yogurt. Probiotic pills are pretty trendy at health food stores in the USA, I don't know about over there. If so, they are very good for your overall digestive health, allergies, etc, and a great source for brewers too.

As far as hops, that's entirely up to you. I just added a little leftover bag I had handy in the mash tun. I didn't boil, but if you do, feel free to add as you would any Belgian Wit, for instance.

Thanks for your advice Seymour.
I think I'll add about 100g of Acidulated malt and 500g pale malt to the mix to up the lactobacillus & help it ripen.

I mashed in a converted LIDL pasturiser / boiler / mashtun so when I've sparged & cleaned I'll do a 30min boil in there to kill anything that's left in boiler.
I'll do a no boil brew, with duvel starter plus dregs from various lambics I've been saving for Christmas.

Planning to brew primary in a spare 5gal bucket used to weigh out grain (so it has lacto in there I'm sure) and secondary in some 4.5L PET bottles. (Old Ashbeck spring water bottles I get for my Startsan).

Nothing ventured ...

[seymour]

Thanks for your advice Seymour.
I think I'll add about 100g of Acidulated malt and 500g pale malt to the mix to up the lactobacillus & help it ripen.

I mashed in a converted LIDL pasturiser / boiler / mashtun so when I've sparged & cleaned I'll do a 30min boil in there to kill anything that's left in boiler.
I'll do a no boil brew, with duvel starter plus dregs from various lambics I've been saving for Christmas.

Planning to brew primary in a spare 5gal bucket used to weigh out grain (so it has lacto in there I'm sure) and secondary in some 4.5L PET bottles. (Old Ashbeck spring water bottles I get for my Startsan)...

Oh yeah, now you're talking. You clearly don't need any more help from me in the imaginative brewing department. Keep us posted on your results!

...Nothing ventured ...

My thoughts exactly!

[jmc]

As far as adding unmashed grain, you certainly could, that would be similar to a Berliner Weiss technique. I rep itched my yeast blend which contains lactobacillus, so I skipped that particular step. I've also successfully gotten acidophilous from sauerkraut and yogurt. Probiotic pills are pretty trendy at health food stores in the USA, I don't know about over there. If so, they are very good for your overall digestive health, allergies, etc, and a great source for brewers too.

As far as hops, that's entirely up to you. I just added a little leftover bag I had handy in the mash tun. I didn't boil, but if you do, feel free to add as you would any Belgian Wit, for instance.

Thanks for your advice Seymour.
I think I'll add about 100g of Acidulated malt and 500g pale malt to the mix to up the lactobacillus & help it ripen.

I mashed in a converted LIDL pasturiser / boiler / mashtun so when I've sparged & cleaned I'll do a 30min boil in there to kill anything that's left in boiler.
I'll do a no boil brew, with duvel starter plus dregs from various lambics I've been saving for Christmas.

Planning to brew primary in a spare 5gal bucket used to weigh out grain (so it has lacto in there I'm sure) and secondary in some 4.5L PET bottles. (Old Ashbeck spring water bottles I get for my Startsan).

Nothing ventured ...

Sour mash..
I left grain in sealed mashtun but covered grain in plastic to inhibit acetobacter.
After a day in cold garage (7C) nothing seemed to be happening to mashed grains, so I added 100g Acid malt + 500g pale malt to up the lactobacillus.
Still nothing happening so I moved to somewhere a bit warmer a pulsed a bit of heat (handy feature of Lidl boiler / mash tun) to raise to 30C. I then left in a warmer place and temp seemed to stay in 20C -> 18C range. Day before mash moved to garage again

I mashed the soured grains yesterday., i.e. 7 days after previous mash. Prior to mash had a taste, a bit of lacto bite and odd taste but not gross.

I planned a 65C 60min mash to convert the added grain, I used Brewzor calc app to raise estimated 8.3 Kg of wet grain from 10C to 65C. 14L @ 90C liquor added. Liquor just treated with 7cc 1% sod met.
This raised to 60C (I must have under-estimated amount of water absorbed by mashed grain). I increased temp to 64C using Lidl heater.
Not converted after 60mins, probably due to low % unmashed grain / enzymes and low pH ~4
After 3 hours just about converted.
Remembered this was no boil and had forgotten hops so I made a 'hop tea' with 1 pt boiling water & 20g Cluster pellets. After 15mins poured gently on top of grain . Hopefully grain will filter.
I ran off to spare 5gal bucket. Wort run off OG=1016 & fairly clear.

After 3 gal / 13.5 L produced. After 1 Kg Billington's Demerara added OG raised to 1039.

Not Boiled. Left to cool to 26C then yeast starter of Duvel + Oude Krieke / Geuze dregs added

After normal clean up, copper mash tun manifold & silicone pipe used boiled in LIDL boiler for 20 mins to zap any remaining bugs.

** edited typo **

[seymour]

Woah, great post! Keep us posted on how it ends up tasting.

[Manx Guy]

Fascinating!

I might try this myself one day when I have a bit of spare time...



Keep us posted on how it turns out



Guy

[seymour]

Okay, I take back all the bad things I said about this recipe. In the last week, this beer became mesmerizingly delicious. All you Windsor fans out there: you were right, it just takes a really long time to finish and drop out, taking all the weird esters with it. Even better, my beer is no longer too sweet.

I had some brewers and hard-core beer nerds over for New Year's and they would've drunk all of it if I'd let 'em. Several longtime fans of my beer said this is the best yet. Who knew?! I will definitely brew this again.

If you're interested in a complex stout that really does taste like Chocolate Milk, and you're patient, feel free to try this recipe as is. Sorry for all the mixed signals.

This morning I shipped it to a BJCP/AHA competition, I'll post my results when they come: http://www.mashout.org/index.html#

For anyone who's paying really close attention, check out the contest organizer: Kristen England, a.k.a. Mr. Malty (of the infamous yeast charts), a.k.a. mashweasel, a.k.a. Graham Wheeler's arch-enemy himself!

[tazuk]

to seymour
re Seymour Chocolate Milk Stout the amount of 454 g, Lactose, in boil ?????
would you say it was too sweet or just right as would not like too sweet if you know wot i mean

cheers neil

[barney]

Good Luck in the competition Seymour!

[seymour]

re Seymour Chocolate Milk Stout the amount of 454 g, Lactose, in boil?

I did. I bought a 1 pound bag and used the whole thing. If you're afraid of it coming out too sweet, feel free to reduce it to 3/4 lb (340 g). Or use a more attenuative yeast. The high dose of lactose combined with Windsor yeast as I did (already renowned for leaving behind residual malt sweetness), mine is definitely on the sweet end of the Sweet Stout spectrum. But as I said, given enough patience, it turned out surprisingly delicious. I don't have to tell you chocolate flavors go good with milk flavors. Good luck, and keep us updated if you give it a go.

Good Luck in the competition Seymour!

Thanks, man! Hoping for the best!

[tazuk]

sweet cheers i must have about 4 brews planed for the next few week lol 2 of them yours lol this one and the ameerian amber ale

re Seymour Chocolate Milk Stout the amount of 454 g, Lactose, in boil?

I did. I bought a 1 pound bag and used the whole thing. If you're afraid of it coming out too sweet, feel free to reduce it to 3/4 lb (340 g). Or use a more attenuative yeast. The high dose of lactose combined with Windsor yeast as I did (already renowned for leaving behind residual malt sweetness), mine is definitely on the sweet end of the Sweet Stout spectrum. But as I said, given enough patience, it turned out surprisingly delicious. I don't have to tell you chocolate flavors go good with milk flavors. Good luck, and keep us updated if you give it a go.

Good Luck in the competition Seymour!

Thanks, man! Hoping for the best!